Australian Politics Forum - The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems

Grendel

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #195 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1379892909/188#188 date=1383995802]Libel? Since when was asking questions libellous, Beowulf?

It is interesting. It seems OK for Freediver to ask my religion. I saw nary a peep out of you on that little effort yet you jump to Soren's defence immediately. One might question your motives, perhaps? Roll Eyes

When they clearly infer things bwian. When there are no question marks. Then they are not questions

I infer nothing, Beowulf. If a sentence has no question mark, it isn't a question by definition, it's a statement and nothing is inferable from it. It is direct. Is English your second language? Roll Eyes

I do so enjoy it when you like proving my points bwian or twisting the truth so much you get yourself in knots. Lost in your tapestry of lies...

Just let me know when you will be getting back on topic instead of leading everyone off in ad hom land... you are slime bwian... that's a statement too.
Your pathetic defamation of people who disagree with you is beneath contempt.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #196 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:55pm Bwian
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Brian Ross

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #197 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:02pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:18am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

It becomes vilification when it is taken out into the public sphere and promoted as you do, continually, Soren. It is based on distortions, ignorance and as you point out, fear and loathing which is of course prejudice and intolerance. Society has decreed these things are not acceptable in the case of innocent members of a groups such as Muslims. As I keep pointing out, you're an Islamophobe ad you've just admitted it by proclaiming your motive is "fear and loathing". Wink

1. Islam is not a person.

Where did I suggest it was? Roll Eyes

Quote:

2. Disliking or fearing a religion or an ideology is not vilification and it has not been made illegal.

Making those attacks on the basis of "fear and loathing" as you have admitted, Soren, despite all your ignorant views being continually corrected, is by definition, Islamophobia, Soren. Get used to it. It is you.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #198 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

I don't "fill something with completely new meaning," Soren. The "meaning" is always there, it's just that you, as a bigot don't recognise it. It takes a more reasonable voice, one whom can and does identify "it" as to what it is. If it's promoting the superiority of one "race" over another, it is racism. If it is persecuting a religion, it's bigotry or religious persecution. These are the correct labels, nothing more. If you don't like the labels, then stop making these arguments. Simple, really, isn't it?

1. Islam is not a race so there is no promoting of a race over another when Islam is judged negatively and western democracy positively.

I didn't claim that Islam was a "race", Soren. I used "racism" as an example. Is your English comprehension really that bad?

Quote:

2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.

Fear and/or loathing (lets use the word you used) is your rationale for your continued persecution of Muslims, Soren. That is irrational. That is Islamophobia.

Quote:

3. Even having a negative opinion of you as a person is neither vilification nor persecution. It's a negative opinion.

When that "negative opinion" is voiced continually and emphasised to the degree that you have, Soren, it moves from mere opinion to persecution. When it's basis is "racial"/sexual orientation/religious/ethnicity/etc., it becomes vilification.

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4. "Stop making these arguments" - now there's the nub of it. You cannot how how I am wrong so you resort to threats and bandying of overinflated words of "bigotry, libel, vilification" and the like.

I have made no threats, Soren. I have merely made observations. If I had said, "Keep making those arguments and I'll sue you!" I'd have been making a threat. I haven't said that you MUST STOP using those arguments. I have advised you that if you don't want those labels to be applied to your arguments, then stop using them. You appear unable to differentiate. Could it be that you don't realise there are limitations on free speech in Australia (and always have been)?

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I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren? I don't live in a Muslim country. Australia will never become one with less than 2% of the population claiming that religion as their faith. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #199 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:16pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1379892909/188#188 date=1383995802]Libel? Since when was asking questions libellous, Beowulf?

It is interesting. It seems OK for Freediver to ask my religion. I saw nary a peep out of you on that little effort yet you jump to Soren's defence immediately. One might question your motives, perhaps? Roll Eyes

When they clearly infer things bwian. When there are no question marks. Then they are not questions

I infer nothing, Beowulf. If a sentence has no question mark, it isn't a question by definition, it's a statement and nothing is inferable from it. It is direct. Is English your second language? Roll Eyes

I do so enjoy it when you like proving my points bwian or twisting the truth so much you get yourself in knots. Lost in your tapestry of lies...

Just let me know when you will be getting back on topic instead of leading everyone off in ad hom land... you are slime bwian... that's a statement too.
Your pathetic defamation of people who disagree with you is beneath contempt.

*SIGH* I do wish you'd stop wasting our time with all these off topic questions. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 40938	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #200 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:18pm Grendel wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:55pm: Bwian http://rlv.zcache.com/romney_is_a_bigot_png_mesh_hat-r43e2ff0aac764bbaaccd9550a1... For a person who claims he craves debate, you appear to contribute nothing beyond silly pictures, insults, ad hominem and obfuscation, Beowulf.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #201 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:25pm Bwian rather ironic considering your name Brian
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 40938	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #202 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 7:46pm SIGH I do wish you'd stop wasting our time with all these off topic questions. For someone who claims they crave debate, you engage in so little, Beowulf. Such hypocrisy.
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Soren

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #203 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1379892909/191#191 date=1384044792]

2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.

Fear and/or loathing (lets use the word you used) is your rationale for your continued persecution of Muslims, Soren. That is irrational. That is Islamophobia.

I did not use the word loathing - wouldn't want to be as derivative as to nod towards Thompson and gonzo journalism.

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam. People IN THE WEST are murdered and roughed up and harassed if they draw a cartoon, make a video, write a book, translate a book, make a speech that doesn't accept Islam's claims about itself.
And in the 'Muslim lands' they blow up each other every day because of ever so slight differences in view about Islam.

To say that there is nothing to be afraid of is pathological. To say that these things are not causes of fear is pathological.

If I said 'I dislike all religion' you'd be cool with that. When I say I dislike a particular religion, you are all over the shop about bigotry, racism, vilification and all that over-invested puffery that is your speciality.

I don't have to like Islam. As a freeborn man, I can say that. Who the bugger are you to tell me what I have to like and respect?

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:30pm by Soren »

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Soren

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #204 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

3. Even having a negative opinion of you as a person is neither vilification nor persecution. It's a negative opinion.

When that "negative opinion" is voiced continually and emphasised to the degree that you have, Soren, it moves from mere opinion to persecution. When it's basis is "racial"/sexual orientation/religious/ethnicity/etc., it becomes vilification.

Islam is not a person, Brain. It has no rights. Persons have rights.

You would have us believe that disagreeing with every aspect of an ideology is persecution of that ideology. I have to agree with/like some aspects of Islam, otherwise I am persecuting Islam.

This is what you are saying and I think it is idiotic AND menacing to an exceptional degree. You are actually menacing me and others with this sort of low-burning rancorous bvllshit.

If I slagged off modernist architecture at every turn, you wouldn't ride to the rescue of modernist architecture and architects and the partisans of modernist architecture.

What is it about Islam that is so dear to your heart? There are plenty of expressions of dislike for plenty of things on these boards but it is only disagreement and dislike of Islam that gets you going.

You should come clean and tell us about your special relationship with it.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #205 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm If I remember right..... bwian has claimed in the past to have a few indonesian fwends... You know bwian... that's enough to make him an expert and judge everyone else on the planet.
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Soren

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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #206 - Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren?

You don't have to.

But why wouldn't you say what you like about it. Or are you ashamed of it?
You defend Islam at every turn. It is only natural to ask what you like and embrace about it. Why the big secrecy about where you stand with Islam?

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #207 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 8:57am Fatwa... don't worry bwian, you'll be safe.
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Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Reply #208 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 1:59pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren?

You don't have to.

But why wouldn't you say what you like about it. Or are you ashamed of it?
You defend Islam at every turn. It is only natural to ask what you like and embrace about it. Why the big secrecy about where you stand with Islam?

Why do you feel the need to know? Perhaps we could ask why you "fear and loath" Islam so much? Did a big bad Muslim scare you as a child? Cheesy

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Ezy Va New Member Offline Consultation, through to the staff recruitment Posts: 5 Australia Gender:	Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems Reply #209 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 2:05pm We are all brothers if we do open our hearts!
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