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Ford left because of Abbott (Read 1639 times)
Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #15 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:17pm
 
Ford Australia's labour costs were 4 times that of Asia and 2 times that of Ford Europe and the UK.

Fact.

That is why they had to leave.

In the UK we have no need to pay a pension scheme, in Australia we do
In the UK we have no long service leave, in Australia we do
In the UK we have no necessity to pay penalty rates on many roles, in Australia we do.

If you don't adjust your labour costs and industrial relations, then more multi-nationals will follow Ford out the door.

You may not like the message, but that is the fact.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #16 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:18pm
 
And for someone who suggested there be no VAT/GST - meaning huge amounts of people would be zero tax - I am pretty sure your understanding goes little beyond the politics of envy.

Tax the rich and give to the poor eh?

Grin
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #17 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:39pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
And for someone who suggested there be no VAT/GST - meaning huge amounts of people would be zero tax - I am pretty sure your understanding goes little beyond the politics of envy.

Tax the rich and give to the poor eh?

Grin

Andrei, there will never be a time when you won't be arguing that workers should drop pay and conditions.  No matter how much we drop you and your lazy parasitic ilk will be demanding more. There will be no end to this until we all have jobs with salaries on par with our chinese cousins. And so people need to realise that that is the inevitable end if we simply accept this system without a fight so that the developing world comes up to our standards rather then we down to there's and theres no more free rides for the people that ar$eholes like Andrei dream of being. If the system says that we must ultimately drop down to Chinese pay and conditions then you would be a fool and a slave not to fight to change the system.
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« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:04pm by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #18 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:39pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
And for someone who suggested there be no VAT/GST - meaning huge amounts of people would be zero tax - I am pretty sure your understanding goes little beyond the politics of envy.

Tax the rich and give to the poor eh?

Grin

Andrei, there will never be a time when you won't be arguing that workers should drop pay and conditions.  No matter how much we drop you and you lazy parasitic ilk will be demanding more. There will be no end to this until we will all have jobs but on salaries that are on par with our chinese cousins. And so people need to realise that that is the inevitable end if we simply accept the system with out a fight to change it so that the developing world comes up to our standards rather then we down to there's and theres no more free rides for people that ar$eholes like Andrei  fantasize as being. If the system says that we must ultimately drop down to Chinese pay and conditions then you would be a fool and a slave not to fight to change the system.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #19 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:17pm
 
Utter horsesh*t.

I live in P&Ls, I am constantly analysing and making them work. Forecasting, re-forecasting, modelling etc to get a better bottom line.

Let me tell you something my friend - labour costs are an intrinsic part of the ability to stay to budget, to stay ahead of competition and to deliver shareholder return.

BUT

Are they the only lever to pull in the P&L?

No of course not - so saying we want to drive down labour costs to be on a par with a third world nation is fanciful nonsense which is the talk ot Unions - who know full well that isnt the case but because they preach to a largely ignorant rabble they get away with it.

Labour costs drive into the gross margin - particularly your base level worker and shop floor costings.

Now we need that to be competitive no doubt - but also we expect it to be higher than the third world.
There are other costs which can be offset - supply chain costs can be lower if produced in the market of sale, freight costs, regulatory submission costs are cheaper if manufactured in the point of entry etc.

Then there are the ancillary costs to look at - consulting, travel, resourcing etc.

Many many many things beyond that of just driving down salaried costs.

How is this proved?
Well let's take a look at the car market as per this very example?

Ford - Moved out of Australia because costs are too high.
General Motors - scaled down because of high costs and I would be stunned if they don't leave Australia too in the future.

Same 2 companies?

In the UK - General Motors is increasing headcount and making the new Astra and Insignia at the Ellesmere Port plant in the UK.

Ford has increased its headcount in Dagenham to cope with the demand of manufacturing the Ford trucks and new Focus Zetec.

The UK. A first world, developed nation. Like Australia.

Difference? Competitive labour market. Competitive cost basis (not needing overtime, pension costs and long service leave for starters).

Move with the times or lose the jobs.

Australia. The choice is yours.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #20 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:18pm
 
.
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Grendel
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #21 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:07pm
 
What a load of shyte adelcrow...  is all you Leftards can do is lie and live in denial it's time you all vacated the playing field.
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #22 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:34pm
 
Hicks posts a picture of two passports.

They could belong to anyone. Proves nothing.
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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #23 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:35pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:18pm:
.


This is without doubt Andrei's most intelligent contribution to date.
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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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True Colours
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #24 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:50pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 4:19pm:
Ford pulled the plug when it became obvious that Phony Tony was going to win the election and swing his wrecking ball through the economy.
GM will be next and then the dominoes will begin to fall..thanks Phony Tony you are giving Australia a one way ticket to the third world.


Thousands of Aussie jobs to be lost before the next election - looking more and more like a one-term PM.

One-term Abbott. Grin
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #25 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 11:24pm
 
Double post
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« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2013 at 2:22am by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #26 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 11:24pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 9:17pm:
Utter horsesh*t.
What utter horsesh!t. You contradict yourself at every turn.

I live in P&Ls, I am constantly analysing and making them work. Forecasting, re-forecasting, modelling etc to get a better bottom line.
Which is precisely why you can't be objective

Let me tell you something my friend - labour costs are an intrinsic part of the ability to stay to budget, to stay ahead of competition and to deliver shareholder return.
And by labour costs do you mean your salary too and management's salary in your organization and your bonuses (which you bragged to us just a few weeks ago was higher then most people earn in a year) and other management
Fringe benefits. Aren't all these management costs also "an intrinsic part of the ability to stay to budget, to stay ahead of competition etc" to use your words. But I don't ever see you attacking those costs to improve the bottom line. 


BUT
Are they the only lever to pull in the P&L?

No of course not - so saying we want to drive down labour costs to be on a par with a third world nation is fanciful nonsense which is the talk ot Unions - who know full well that isnt the case but because they preach to a largely ignorant rabble they get away with it.
Sorry! All this is, is a blanket denial, notwithstanding all the evidence of your own words repeatedly. Our penalty rates you say have to go. Our long service leave has to go. Our super has to go. And check your own words below. You said "for starters". In other words, that's just the beginning. And your telling me all this downward movement on our earnings in not bringing us closer to the earnings of our fellow workers in the developing world. Of course business won't be so stupid to do it all in one go but to deny that your attack on so many of our conditions is not heading in that direction is quite simply a lie.


Labour costs drive into the gross margin - particularly your base level worker and shop floor costings.
But not you and your management mates it seems.


Now we need that to be competitive no doubt - but also we expect it to be higher than the third world.
For now.

There are other costs which can be offset - supply chain costs can be lower if produced in the market of sale, freight costs, regulatory submission costs are cheaper if manufactured in the point of entry etc.

Then there are the ancillary costs to look at - consulting, travel, resourcing etc.

Many many many things beyond that of just driving down salaried costs.
Listen junior don't tell me your going to pretend that your not working to lower all these costs "simultaneously". Just because your lowering transport costs doesn't mean your not also working hard to lower labour costs


How is this proved?
Well let's take a look at the car market as per this very example?

Ford - Moved out of Australia because costs are too high.
General Motors - scaled down because of high costs and I would be stunned if they don't leave Australia too in the future.

Same 2 companies?

In the UK - General Motors is increasing headcount and making the new Astra and Insignia at the Ellesmere Port plant in the UK.
Because I think your telling me they have removed those conditions which you want to remove from Australia and bring us to closer parity with workers in developing countries. listen just because you call the UK a developed country doesn't mean the business community is not driving salaries down all over the developed world. Of course they are. And down we all go to the working poor. And when the Chinese car industry takes off you can forget those GM/FORD UK jobs unless the UK protects them against cheap Chinese labour and thereby bring the Chinese worker up to our standards.Also if its like the US (which I suspect is the case) the UK car industry has negotiated deals for their workers to take a drop in pay and condition (but of course when the good times come back the pay and conditions don't improve.


Ford has increased its headcount in Dagenham to cope with the demand of manufacturing the Ford trucks and new Focus Zetec.

The UK. A first world, developed nation. Like Australia.

Difference? Competitive labour market. Competitive cost basis (not needing overtime, pension costs and long service leave for starters).

Move with the times or lose the jobs.
Like I said the system that the international business elite has designed for its benefit means we will be down to poverty salaries unless we fight to change the system. And seeing what is obviously ahead we would be fools and slave minded not to fight the system.


Australia. The choice is yours.
Yes indeed, Australia the choice is yours


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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #27 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:17am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:34pm:
Hicks posts a picture of two passports.

They could belong to anyone. Proves nothing.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #28 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:18am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 10:34pm:
Hicks posts a picture of two passports.

They could belong to anyone. Proves nothing.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Ford left because of Abbott
Reply #29 - Sep 26th, 2013 at 1:18am
 
Wrong ago my insane friend!

Better luck next time sheep shagger.
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