Australian Politics Forum - Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change

Swagman

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #15 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:27pm

The trouble with the 'climate change' issue which used to be 'anthropogenic global warming theory' is that it is totally over used for a political agenda instead of an agenda of realistically trying to prevent catastrophic climate change.

Climate change catastrophic or otherwise is going to happen. It's natural. Preventing it is like trying to stop the tides.

Reducing the theoretical effect that humans are contributing is another matter. The scientific elites (Poindexters) seem to think that pumping CO2 into the atmosphere is the main driver of warming and reducing CO2 emission is the only way to prevent / reduce the effect of ‘climate change’???

OK if reducing CO2 emissions is so paramount then the Poindexters should be embracing all methods of reducing CO2 emissions not just the warm fuzzy inefficient ones. CSG / Nuclear power should be some that should be on top the list.

But nope. This is not the case. Leftists are using global warming as a convenient way to promote their political ideology. (If you don’t believe me Google eco-socialism and read their manifestos) Hence it’s only those methods of reducing CO2 emissions that don’t interfere with their socialist political goals.

The eco-socialists (such as the Australian Greens) are totally against methods of reducing CO2 emissions such as coal seam gas, nuclear power and shock horror ‘direct action’ (actually doing something first hand) not because they could be effective weapons to reduce CO2 concentrations but because these methods may make corporations rich and may make some individuals rich, which is totally against their political grain.

Sensible individuals are a wake up to this and can see that the eco-socialist agenda of the Greenies takes precedence over reducing the effect of climate change and therefore the global warming alarm bells are just a political front.

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #16 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:42pm

Nice post Swagman.
I want to add something about when people say that Big Oil is trying it hardest to stop climate change policies that effect them going through.

Turns out Oil and Gas companies benefit from c02 reductions as their biggest competition is the Coal industry! http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/05/22/how-big-oil-benefits-from-global-warming-alarmism/2/

Quote:

And coal? Here’s where the global warming regulatory crowd at EPA are doing all they can to help the Big Oil & Gas guys, whether they asked for it or not. Then again, the EPA probably isn’t the coal industry’s biggest problem anyway, and is only hastening its inevitable decline. A greater adversary resides in the free market form of that cheaper, cleaner and abundant natural gas. As Jone-Lin Wang, head of global power research for HIS CERA told the Wall Street Journal, no other threat to coal “even comes close.”

Quote:

EPA has actually been an ally of Big Oil & Gas against Big Coal for some time, originally with no better friend then Enron. Flash back to the 1990s, a period when Enron’s natural gas business was encountering difficult market competition with coal.

Quote:

Media-fueled alarm about acid rain provided a basis for legislation to create markets for buying and selling excess sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide emission credits, and Project 88 became the Clean Air Act of 1990. Enron was a major SO2 cap-and-trade player.

So Enron and others wondered, why not do the same thing with CO2? Since natural gas is a lower CO2 emitter than coal, this would certainly be a profitability game changer. But there was a problem. Unlike SO2, CO2 wasn’t considered to be a pollutant, so the EPA had no authority to regulate it. But national hype about a global warming crisis advanced by then-Senator Gore’s highly publicized 1988 congressional hearings on the subject soon appeared to provide a dream opportunity to change that.

Enron’s CEO Kenneth Lay had reportedly already met with President Clinton and Vice President Gore on August 4, 1997 to prepare a U.S. strategy for an upcoming U.N.-sponsored, Kyoto Protocol-promoting, climate summit that December. Kyoto presented the first step toward creating a carbon market that Enron desperately wanted Congress to support.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #17 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:52pm

____ wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:06am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:00am:

skippy. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

I love it when a known moron thinks he knows better than 99% of the scientific community. Roll Eyes

I love it when they change the definition to "catastrophic".

We are living in a period of a mass extinction which looks like will include our species. Yeah you are right, catastrophic is an understatement ... deadly climate change is more fitting.

You need to loosen up your hemp undies dude.
How's the sky going, fallen in yet.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #18 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

skippy. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

I love it when a known moron thinks he knows better than 99% of the scientific community. Roll Eyes

1. That figure is simply incorrect.

2. This is what one climate scientist has to say about consensus:

“..scientific issues cannot be decided by a vote of scientists. A consensus is not, at any given time, a good predictor of where the truth actually resides.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

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longweekend58

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #19 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 3:48pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

I love it when a known moron thinks he knows better than 99% of the scientific community. Roll Eyes

1. That figure is simply incorrect.

2. This is what one climate scientist has to say about consensus:

“..scientific issues cannot be decided by a vote of scientists. A consensus is not, at any given time, a good predictor of where the truth actually resides.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

Im always astounded by the consensus comments as if it proves anything, It in fact proves nothing at all. One fact will defeat 1000 consensual opinions.

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muso

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #20 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:22pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:27pm:

The trouble with the 'climate change' issue which used to be 'anthropogenic global warming theory' is that it is totally over used for a political agenda instead of an agenda of realistically trying to prevent catastrophic climate change.

That is the crux of the matter. It has been hijacked by the Green Socialist Left as a way of justifying the redistribution of wealth.

The problem is that providing money to developing countries that have no hope of actually "developing" in the guise of assisting with renewable energy schemes, is counter productive. It detracts from replacing fossil fuel based energy with clean energy in the countries that actually produce energy in sufficient amounts. Some of the African countries have a similar energy use to a small town in Australia.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change Reply #21 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:25pm longweekend58 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 3:48pm: Im always astounded by the consensus comments as if it proves anything, It in fact proves nothing at all. One fact will defeat 1000 consensual opinions. Opinion in itself is worthless. Facts backed by verifiable evidence is all that counts.
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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change Reply #22 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:27pm Bushfires in Australia at the end of winter, start of Spring? not a trend yet, but keep an eye on it hey folks?
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muso

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #23 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:28pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:36am:

The truly telling word that makes all the change and causes all the debate is ‘catastrophic’. Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change (CACC).

Is that a term used by the IPCC? I did a search of www.ipcc.ch for the terms "Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change" and "Catastrophic Climate Change".

Neither of these terms are used. They do talk about the increasing frequency of catastrophic weather events. Is that what you mean?

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« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:35pm by muso »

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #24 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 12:59am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

skippy. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

I love it when a known moron thinks he knows better than 99% of the scientific community. Roll Eyes

because they've never been wrong before??? the consensus position in science has frequently been wrong. and CACC isn't even the consensus opinion.

but good to see that you didn't read the article.

lol, semantics is it??

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #25 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:03am

muso wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 6:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 3:48pm:

Im always astounded by the consensus comments as if it proves anything, It in fact proves nothing at all. One fact will defeat 1000 consensual opinions.

Opinion in itself is worthless. Facts backed by verifiable evidence is all that counts.

longy is trying to own the word 'consensus'!!

He/she/it is a tryhard chess player!!

Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #26 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:06am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 3:48pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

I love it when a known moron thinks he knows better than 99% of the scientific community. Roll Eyes

1. That figure is simply incorrect.

2. This is what one climate scientist has to say about consensus:

“..scientific issues cannot be decided by a vote of scientists. A consensus is not, at any given time, a good predictor of where the truth actually resides.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

Im always astounded by the consensus comments as if it proves anything, It in fact proves nothing at all. One fact will defeat 1000 consensual opinions.

see, trying to own words so they can't be used and thus stifle debate and affecting groupthink.

it can't work of course but they know that and are simply stalling for maximum re-tooling time as the new paradigm makes itself clear which it obviously hasn't yet or the anti-science would stop!

It's all about harmonisation of the pieces!!

..........................apparently Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Bobby.

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #27 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:09am

Longweekend thinks that billions of tons of stinking coal
can be put into the atmosphere & nothing will happen.

People like him should not be risking our climate.
What if Longweekend is wrong?

I suppose Longy will be dead & gone before his theory can be tested so he won't have to worry.

I'd like to think that we leave this planet in good shape for future generations.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #28 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:17am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:09am:

Longweekend thinks that billions of tons of stinking coal
can be put into the atmosphere & nothing will happen.

People like him should not be risking our climate.
What if Longweekend is wrong?

I suppose Longy will be dead & gone before his theory can be tested so he won't have to worry.

I'd like to think that we leave this planet in good shape for future generations.

longy and his/her/it's foreign investor interests don't care about the kids and that is the way it's always been!

People have kids for no reason: not all but some.. and some is all it takes! Wink

They don't even believe climate change aint happening: they are just stalling until the new business paradigm is made clear and they play the same null hypotheis game science itself plays! The rich methodically work out the truth just as science does-->> it's an art form!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Why I don’t believe in Catastrophic Climate Change
Reply #29 - Sep 28^th, 2013 at 1:22am

... further: business interests play ball and if regulation has to come into it well that is not their concern until it becomes their concern==>> they play the game as it stands! You actually can't expect them to do any other-- it is market forces at work!

It's all a natural process: our main concern is the lies our regulated markets are legally allowed to tell us and thus corrupt the voting process that makes representative democracy itself!!

Voila, here we are back at the start(!??!) of the tapyoka circle.....

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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