Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 32
Send Topic Print
IPCC 95% sure about AGW (Read 37825 times)
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #135 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:26pm
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:12pm:
Did you know that atmospheric co2 levels are at historical lows and if they got down to 150ppm life on Earth would cease, did you know that all plant and animal life developed during a period of far greater co2 content, are you all aware that life on Earth flourished during times when co2 content was 2000 ppm, did you know that humans can survive co2 levels of 5000 ppm?, f#ck me dead how did people become so scientifically illiterate, probably because they let their political views overwhelm their scientific views thats why.   


Yes the world when CO2 levels hovered around 10,000 ppmv (~1% v/v)

Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #136 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:30pm
 
muso wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:21pm:
The CO2 concentration has already been at 150 ppm and life is still existing on Earth. Although you may not know it, what you are claiming from that is a high climate sensitivity.

So is cliamte sensitivity high or low? You can't have it both ways.





No sorry but 150ppm is the generally accepted level at which life on Earth would cease, currently we are at historically low levels of co2, the only way is up, anyone that wants to restrict co2 levels is an enemy of life, studies have shown that co2 levels of 1200ppm have amazing positive effects on plant and tree growth, of course that doesn't help much for the end of the worlders though  Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #137 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:45pm
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:30pm:
muso wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:21pm:
The CO2 concentration has already been at 150 ppm and life is still existing on Earth. Although you may not know it, what you are claiming from that is a high climate sensitivity.

So is cliamte sensitivity high or low? You can't have it both ways.





No sorry but 150ppm is the generally accepted level at which life on Earth would cease, currently we are at historically low levels of co2, the only way is up, anyone that wants to restrict co2 levels is an enemy of life, studies have shown that co2 levels of 1200ppm have amazing positive effects on plant and tree growth, of course that doesn't help much for the end of the worlders though  Grin


....and we all know what happens to innocent bystanders don't we innocent bystander?
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #138 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:54pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:45pm:
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:30pm:
muso wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:21pm:
The CO2 concentration has already been at 150 ppm and life is still existing on Earth. Although you may not know it, what you are claiming from that is a high climate sensitivity.

So is cliamte sensitivity high or low? You can't have it both ways.





No sorry but 150ppm is the generally accepted level at which life on Earth would cease, currently we are at historically low levels of co2, the only way is up, anyone that wants to restrict co2 levels is an enemy of life, studies have shown that co2 levels of 1200ppm have amazing positive effects on plant and tree growth, of course that doesn't help much for the end of the worlders though  Grin


....and we all know what happens to innocent bystanders don't we innocent bystander?




Is that really your considered response?, you should be embarrassed.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #139 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:58pm
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:54pm:
Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:45pm:
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:30pm:
muso wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:21pm:
The CO2 concentration has already been at 150 ppm and life is still existing on Earth. Although you may not know it, what you are claiming from that is a high climate sensitivity.

So is cliamte sensitivity high or low? You can't have it both ways.





No sorry but 150ppm is the generally accepted level at which life on Earth would cease, currently we are at historically low levels of co2, the only way is up, anyone that wants to restrict co2 levels is an enemy of life, studies have shown that co2 levels of 1200ppm have amazing positive effects on plant and tree growth, of course that doesn't help much for the end of the worlders though  Grin


....and we all know what happens to innocent bystanders don't we innocent bystander?




Is that really your considered response?, you should be embarrassed.


give me a good reason to respond to your cultist denialist religious dogma and I may consider responding to your residual excremental public comments

Now be gone with you putrid freak clown of Hades
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #140 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 10:36pm
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:30pm:
muso wrote on Oct 2nd, 2013 at 9:21pm:
The CO2 concentration has already been at 150 ppm and life is still existing on Earth. Although you may not know it, what you are claiming from that is a high climate sensitivity.

So is climate sensitivity high or low? You can't have it both ways.





No sorry but 150ppm is the generally accepted level at which life on Earth would cease, currently we are at historically low levels of co2, the only way is up, anyone that wants to restrict co2 levels is an enemy of life, studies have shown that co2 levels of 1200ppm have amazing positive effects on plant and tree growth, of course that doesn't help much for the end of the worlders though  Grin


I'd love to see the study that supports that little gem. 

1. Low CO2  only affects plants with C3 Photosynthesis, but not C4 or CAM photosynthesis.
2. It doesn't affect animals in any way.

Your claim is simply daft.

Elevated levels of CO2, even at 1200ppm have been demonstrated to affect concentration and cause headaches and difficulty in making decisions. Prolonged concentration at 3000ppm  can result in miscarriages in pregnant women and levels from 1000- 3000ppm have been demonstrated to  cause renal calcification and testicular calcification with resulting loss of fertility.

You must provide a link to your source. Here is one of mine:

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ehp.1104789.pdf

Given that some urban environments are already at about 500ppm in the open,  a general elevation in atmospheric CO2 is likely to result in dangerous levels in urban areas.

For paleo CO2 levels:

Barnola, J.-M., D. Raynaud, C. Lorius, and N.I. Barkov. 2003. Historical CO2 record from the Vostok ice core.

Look at unsmoothed CO2 data. Check the value at 67,500 years BP. It's 153.7 ppm CO2.

Also:

http://www.seas.harvard.edu/climate/seminars/pdfs/tripati.etal.sci.2009.pdf

Tripati et al 2009 - CO2 levels dropped to 150 ppm during late Pliocene glaciations.

Also check this graph:
http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/400000yearslarge.gif

(Courtesy of your mate Anthony Watts.)
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:15am by muso »  

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #141 - Oct 2nd, 2013 at 10:57pm
 
muso seems to have an innocent bystander up against the ropes

see what happens when you read too much Bolt with your breakfast?
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #142 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:10am
 
...



Life flourished on Earth when co2 was up to 20 X what it is today.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #143 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:11am
 

What are the Allowable Limits of CO2 EXPOSURE

Carbon dioxide exposure limits PEL and TLV set by OSHA and NIOSH

Carbon dioxide is regulated for diverse purposes but not as a toxic substance.

bullet      The U.S. EPA CO2 exposure limits: The U.S. EPA recommends a maximum concentration of Carbon dioxide CO2 of 1000 ppm (0.1%) for continuous exposure.
bullet      ASHRAE standard 62-1989 recommends an indoor air ventilation standard of 20 cfm per person of outdoor air or a CO2 level which is below 1000ppm.
bullet      NIOSH CO2 exposure limits: NIOSH recommends a maximum concentration of carbon dioxide of 10,000 ppm or 1% (for the workplace, for a 10-hr work shift with a ceiling of 3.0% or 30,000 ppm for any 10-minute period). These are the highest threshold limit value (TLV) and permissible exposure limit (PEL) assigned to any material.  NIOSH's recommended CO2 exposure limit for 15 minutes is 3.0% or 30,000 ppm . A CO2 level of 4% (40,000 ppm)  is designated by NIOSH as immediately dangerous to life or health.
bullet      OSHA CO2 exposure limits: The U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration, OSHA, has set Permissible Exposure Limits for Carbon Dioxide in workplace atmospheres at...
bullet       10,000 ppm of CO2 measured as a Time Weighted Average (TWA) level of exposure
bullet      OSHA has set 30,000 ppm of CO2 as a Short-Term Exposure Limit (STEL).
bullet      OSHA has also set a Transitional Limit of 5,000 ppm CO2 exposure TWA.
bullet      [OSHA's former limit for carbon dioxide was 5000 ppm as an 8-hour TWA.]
bullet      OSHA recommends a lowest oxygen concentration of 19.5% in the work place for a full work-shift exposure. As we calculated above, for the indoor workplace oxygen level to reach 19.5% (down from its normal 20.9% oxygen level in outdoor air) by displacement of oxygen by CO2, that is, to reduce the oxygen level by about 6%, the CO2 or carbon dioxide level would have to increase to about 1.4% 14,000 ppm.
In summary, OSHA, NIOSH, and ACGIH occupational exposure standards are 0.5% CO2 (5,000 ppm) averaged over a 40 hour week, 3% (3,000 ppm) average for a short-term (15 minute) exposure [we discuss and define "short term exposure limits" STEL below], and 4% (40,000 ppm) as the maximum instantaneous limit considered immediately dangerous to life and health.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #144 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:27am
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:10am:
Life flourished on Earth when co2 was up to 20 X what it is today.


That's based on the original Geocarb project (Berner et al). Do you notice the error in that determination?

It's anything from 2000 ppm to 8000 ppm. Berner stated that the study should not be used as an indication of Phanerozoic CO2 levels and in the the original study, the graph just showed changes in CO2 without concentrations.

By the way, that CO2 peak occurred during the Cambrian period. At that time, there were no land plants or animals.
We've had this conversation before on here.
Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #145 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:28am
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:11am:
What are the Allowable Limits of CO2 EXPOSURE

Carbon dioxide exposure limits PEL and TLV set by OSHA and NIOSH


If anything, that confirms what I said before.
Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #146 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:39am
 
Funny how the climate hysterics have determined that 280ppm is the ideal level for co2, even though levels have fluctuated wildly throughout Earths history, meanwhile greenhouses are fed co2 at levels over a 1000ppm, I guess no one told the plants what the ideal level was.  Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #147 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:41am
 
Narsty stuff that co2  Grin


Rising atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are bolstering plant life throughout the world, environmental scientists report in a newly published peer-reviewed study. The findings, published in Geophysical Research Letters, are gleaned from satellite measurements of global plant life, and contradict assertions by activists that global warming is causing deserts to expand, along with devastating droughts.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/07/10/global-warming-no-satellites-...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Innocent bystander
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4220
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #148 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:42am
 
Isn't it funny that the "greens" are dead against the greening of the planet  Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: IPCC 95% sure about AGW
Reply #149 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 7:43am
 
...



Here is the original caption for that graph:
Quote:
History of Atmospheric CO2 through geological time (past 550 million years: from Berner, Science, 1997). The parameter RCO2 is defined as the ratio of the mass of CO2 in the atmosphere at some time in the past to that at present (with a pre-industrial value of 300 parts per million). The heavier line joining small squares represents the best estimate of past atmospheric CO2 levels based on geochemical modeling and updated to have the effect of land plants on weathering introduced 380 to 350 million years ago. The shaded area encloses the approximate range of error of the modeling based on sensitivity analysis. Vertical bars represent independent estimates of CO2 level based on the study of ancient soils.


So the maximum value on that line is 20 and the preindustrial CO2 is 300. 20 x 300 = 6000ppm.

Of course, it's immaterial that the ocean floor temperature was around 28 degrees C, compared to about 4 degrees today. There was no terrestrial life at that time. That's a famous Monckton blooper by the way. 


Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 32
Send Topic Print