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Climate Change Refugees (Read 4496 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #15 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:37am
 
muso wrote on Oct 3rd, 2013 at 10:08pm:
So we need to start at where you think  the point of departure is.

Is it climate sensitivity? Tell me where you think the science is going wrong.

- because we know exactly how much LWIR is absorbed by CO2.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/4/9/74945338ec357d4a68e5f5356f8f19a0.png

Do you believe the Radiative Forcing for CO2 to be wrongly stated? 
Quote:
Currently there is not enough reliable, credible, scientific evidence to support the AGW theory.


It is a theory, but if your revelation is correct, then it becomes a hypothesis.


impressive formula muso however, it does not explain the static nature of temperature over 17 years nor the sea level rises that are incredibly small.

PS. the IPCC may say one meter in 100 years but on what basis should we believe in their predictions since they change them all the time since they get them all wrong?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #16 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:39am
 
Apparently the temperature is now hiding in the ocean  Grin
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Ajax
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #17 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:43am
 
Geez guys when are you going to wake up to the fact that the AGW religion's science is crap.

To mention some of the pseudo science,

CO2 & temperature correlate.

This is a fallacy when more than one third of  ALL manmade CO2 has been released into the atmosphere after the year 1998 and temperatures have remained flat.

What about forcing here muso......??????

The missing heat is in the deep ocean (3000 metres)

You lads would have defended this argument to your graves, now in the IPCC AR5 paper they say most of the heat is in the top ocean layers (700 metres).

The argo system has failed to find this missing heat.

You boys where arguing that the buoys don't go that deep (3000 metres).

What have you to say now............????

I see that AR5 has stopped claiming that natural disasters are directly linked to climate change.

And about climate change refugees, what was it that the alarmist camp predicted by 2013 in the order of about 50 million.

You end up defending the IPCC's opinion rather than good honest science.

That's why you guys constantly have egg on your faces...!!!
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Soren
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #18 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 10:02am
 
# wrote on Oct 3rd, 2013 at 4:04pm:
For those whose minds and hearts are not shut tight.


Lovely emotional posturing.

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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #19 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 10:04am
 
Lets not forget also that land subsidence is counted as a global warming sea level rise  Grin

Meanwhile the Maldivans build new airports with their free global warming money, I guess thats so they can fly out when the tide comes in  Grin
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longweekend58
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 10:24am
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:39am:
Apparently the temperature is now hiding in the ocean  Grin


but not just anywhere... it is 'hiding' 700metres down.  after a while it all sounds too desperately ludicrous, doesn't it?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 2:28pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 4th, 2013 at 10:24am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:39am:
Apparently the temperature is now hiding in the ocean  Grin


but not just anywhere... it is 'hiding' 700metres down.  after a while it all sounds too desperately ludicrous, doesn't it?

Dunning–Kruger effect

Quote:
for a given skill, incompetent people will:

1.    tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2.    fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3.    fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
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muso
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #22 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 3:27pm
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 4th, 2013 at 9:43am:
CO2 & temperature correlate.

This is a fallacy when more than one third of  ALL manmade CO2 has been released into the atmosphere after the year 1998 and temperatures have remained flat.

What about forcing here muso......??????


The correct term is a Strawman., although there is quite a strong correlation between CO2 and temperature since 1955 or so, it's incorrect to imply that anybody is saying that it is the only druver of climate.

CO2 is not the only driver of climate. There are a myriad of other radiative forcings that affect the planet's energy imbalance. Volcanoes, solar variations, clouds, methane, aerosols - these all change the way energy enters and/or leaves our climate.  We discussed this in another thread.

CO2 has emerged as a major driver of climate since the 50's, but the forcing due to CO2 is offset by the negative forcing due to aerosols.

This graph is taken from the latest IPCC WG1 report.

Does it show CO2 as the only forcing?
No it doesn't, because nobody is claiming that.
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2013 at 3:42pm by muso »  

graph12.jpeg (65 KB | 25 )
graph12.jpeg

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
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Ajax
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #23 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 11:20am
 
muso wrote on Oct 4th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
The correct term is a Strawman., although there is quite a strong correlation between CO2 and temperature since 1955 or so, it's incorrect to imply that anybody is saying that it is the only druver of climate.


If anything your case is the strawman because you cannot prove it.

So then do you think the IPCC is wrong when it says all the warming in the last 60 odd years is due to anthropogenic CO2 emissions.......??????

You cant have it both ways mate....???....either it is or it isn't.............????...which one is it.....?????

Quote:
CO2 is not the only driver of climate. There are a myriad of other radiative forcings that affect the planet's energy imbalance. Volcanoes, solar variations, clouds, methane, aerosols - these all change the way energy enters and/or leaves our climate.  We discussed this in another thread.


Fine I agree.

Quote:
CO2 has emerged as a major driver of climate since the 50's, but the forcing due to CO2 is offset by the negative forcing due to aerosols.


If its the major driver why have temperatures remained flat while 440 gigatonnes of CO2 have gone into the atmosphere since the 1998, and as you know this is more than one third of all manmade CO2 emissions.



Is there any correlation between CO2 and temperature?

(1).....On a small time scale
(NO)
,
(11,000 years)


Showing from 200 to 11000 years ago, the subsequent graph is based on ice core data, readily visible in files hosted on the servers of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):GISP 2 and EPICA Dome C

Graph-1

...

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

(2).....On a medium time scale YES???, (450,000 years)


(NO)
, It appears so because of the scale we are zoomed out at.


WARNING !
This is the scale that most global warming sites use to scare the unsuspecting.


Over the past few hundred thousand years of ice core data, a “medium” time scale in this sense, CO2 superficially appears to change in step with temperature if a graph is so zoomed out as to not show sub-millennial time
scales well

Graph-2

...

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

A record of temperature and atmospheric CO2 over the past 400,000 years is preserved in the Vostok Ice Core and is shown in the figure on the right.

It can be seen that there have been a series of large fluctuations in temperature (the Ice Ages), accompanied by large changes in atmospheric CO2.

It is thought that these large temperature fluctuations are triggered by Milankovitch cycles - variations in the earth's orbit that change the amount of energy from the sun that reaches us.

However, on their own, these cycles are not enough to explain the changes in temperature.

The full explanation seems to be that the small change in temperature caused by the changing orbit are amplified by natural processes on earth. These cause CO2 to be released from the oceans and the biosphere, causing an increased greenhouse effect.

This is described more fully in this article from the New Scientist (see also Shackleton 2000). For more details on the timing of changes in CO2 and temperature, click on the figure.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm#100,000years

(3).....On a long time scale
(NO)
,
(millions of years)


Graph-3

...

[url]http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf[/urll]

(4).....Lately

...



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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #24 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 11:36am
 
So where is the correlation......?????

We should have been getting warmer and warmer since more and more CO2 is going into the atmosphere....????

And don't give me that crap about SO2 offsetting the CO2.

...
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2013 at 3:19pm
 
# wrote on Oct 3rd, 2013 at 4:04pm:
For those whose minds and hearts are not shut tight.
Man From Low-Lying Island Nation Fights For Climate Refugee Status


By Ari Phillips on October 1, 2013 at 11:59 am


http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/AP040330118403-300x193.jpg
Tarawa atoll, Kiribati

CREDIT: AP Photo/Richard Vogel, File


If ocean levels rise by as much as three feet by the end of the century, as predicted by the Fifth IPCC Assessment report released last week, the Pacific island nation of Kiribati — composed of 32 atolls — would mostly disappear.

The potential impacts on the 100,000 citizens of Kiribati, not to mention the millions of others living in low-lying island nations and coastal areas, of this climate change-induced forced exodus are already playing out in New Zealand where a Kiribati man is trying to convince the court that he’s a climate refugee.

The man, referred to as “AF” in hearings, and his wife came to New Zealand six years ago for higher ground and better prospects, according to The Associated Press. Since then, immigration authorities have twice rejected his argument that rising sea levels make it too dangerous for him and his family to return to Kiribati.

On October 16 the case will go before New Zealand’s High Court.

Bruce Burson, a member of New Zealand’s Immigration and Protection Tribunal, has said that the legal concept of a refugee is someone that is being persecuted, which requires human interaction. Burson also said that the man’s claim was rejected because the family’s predicament was the same as faced by the entire population of Kiribati.

“The sad reality is that the environmental degradation caused by both slow and sudden-onset natural disasters is one which is faced by the Kiribati population generally,” he said.

Kiribati’s president Anote Tong is well aware of this fact and has suggested mass relocation to Fiji or even construction of floating island-type accommodation. The Kiribati government has already paid a deposit for 6,000 acres in Fiji for crop growing to provide food security.

The AP obtained a transcript of the man’s recent immigration hearing in which he describes high tides that kill crops, flood homes, and sicken residents with foul drinking water.

The legal case remains a long shot, but one that deserves close attention due to the likelihood of similar cases in the future. Sea level rise impacts not only low-lying islands with small populations but also heavily populated coastal regions, such as Kolkata, India and Dhaka, Bangladesh.

Earlier this year Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, chairperson of the IPCC, said, “There is a very high risk in delta cities like Kolkata, Shanghai and Dhaka. They are very vulnerable to the impacts of climate change due to sea level rise and coastal flooding. Both people and property would be affected in such a scenario.”

In April the Refugee Council of Australia implored the Australian government to become the first nation in the world to recognize populations displaced due to changes in climate as “climate refugees.”

Phil Glendenning, president of the Refugee Council of Australia, told The Guardian, “These are people who are not suffering from persecution because of their beliefs, race or because they belong to a particular group.” As a result, “they don’t meet the Refugee Convention criteria but, nevertheless, there will be a need for people to be resettled because they have been displaced by climate change. This is a new cohort of people who are emerging, the rest of the world needs to pay attention.”

As refugee-receiving nations like Australia and New Zealand grapple with the legal and political implications of climate refugees, island nations already reeling from the impacts of more severe weather events and sea-level rise will continue to roll with the tides and absorb the unwelcome changes as best as possible. [quote]



Kiribati is a coral island group.
And coral islands have been receding and rising out of the oceans for a millennia, which has absolutely bugger all to do with supposed rising sea levels.
The IPCC should stop scaring the natives.
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2013 at 3:27pm
 
EFFING hysterical nonsense!
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #27 - Oct 15th, 2013 at 5:55am
 
Old Codger wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
EFFING hysterical nonsense!

Do you have something of substance to say or is it just that the  scientific consensus offends your world view?
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #28 - Oct 15th, 2013 at 6:15am
 
# wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 5:55am:
Old Codger wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
EFFING hysterical nonsense!

Do you have something of substance to say or is it just that the  scientific consensus offends your world view?

Hi #,
I can't copy at the moment but can I refer you to my last post on the Anthropogenic global warming thread. Its about astroturfing and sockpuppets. It Might explain some of the posters here
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« Last Edit: Oct 15th, 2013 at 6:33am by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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Ajax
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Re: Climate Change Refugees
Reply #29 - Oct 15th, 2013 at 8:45am
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 6:15am:
# wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 5:55am:
Old Codger wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
EFFING hysterical nonsense!

Do you have something of substance to say or is it just that the  scientific consensus offends your world view?

Hi #,
I can't copy at the moment but can I refer you to my last post on the Anthropogenic global warming thread. Its about astroturfing and sockpuppets. It Might explain some of the posters here


People have a right to their opinion just because it conflicts with your beliefs, it doesn't give you the right to try and convince all the other forumites and the occasional reader that everyone except you is wrong.

If it was religion we were talking about, you would be a bible basher....???

Wake up to yourself and grow some balls FFS.
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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