Australian Politics Forum - Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming

Phemanderac

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #225 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 6:22am

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:50pm:

I can't help but agree with your observations Phermanderac.
I think there's a little bit more to it than that, but you summed it up nicely.

Also investigation or not, stolen or not the emails of the climategate scandal are legitimate, the issue is in the context and interpretation. Does it seem suss to you or do you agree it was completely out of context every email? Or no opinion?

It seems more stupid than suss. However, upon looking further into this one of the biggest points that came to light for me to make this all a little less suss, was the fact that despite the email conversation about leaving certain data out, the data ended up in the report anyway.

The individuals who wrote the emails may have been derogatory to others, not particularly thoughtful in their framing of commentary but the final analysis was that the information was still issued in report and, therefore, no wrong doing had occurred.

I realise that, as individuals we can accept or reject that finding. That comes down then in a sense to trust in a process and/or potential conspiracy stuff.

I guess ask to some degree I think people need to consider if their own emails were hacked how some comments they make in private may look.

To my mind it is a very serious aspect to this issue that is blatantly overlooked/ignored. Regardless of whether you think it looks suss or not (the email contents) the bottom line is that it was private correspondence that was stolen.

Is that not seriously problematic?

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming Reply #226 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 6:24am -
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming Reply #227 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 6:25am *
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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #228 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 9:49am

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 9:56pm:

Wrong and wrong. I don't predict, Dr Akasofu and the other bloke/s predicted those graphs, I was just sharing their predictions which I think are more in line with the data than the IPCC.

I do not dispute the greenhouse effect, though I'm open to arguments against it, what I dispute that raising c02 is a black and white answer of increased c02 = increased warming, because the earth isn't a controlled environment, unlike the lab the earth has many external factors that contribute to changes. So far the Solar activity is on a downward trend and the significane of carbon sinks was underestimated, put 2 and 2 together and what do you get? Two reasons why c02's impact will be lowered or even reversed on the empirical side of things. (not theoretical but in actual practice). This is further evidenced by failed predictions using the simplistic black and white form of AGW theory.

The theory must be adjusted to include the relationship climate drivers have with each other and the effects of human produced c02 re-examined. That is all I dispute nothing but the current/future impact due to complexity and evidence against.

The IPCC can come back when they adjust the theory to match the facts rather than skew the data to match their theory.

The crux of the argument, right there....!!

Well said.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming Reply #229 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am vuk11 Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment? Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.
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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #230 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:09pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

What's wrong rabi you have no come backs for the truth....????

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #231 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:28pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

What's wrong rabi you have no come backs for the truth....????

cant vuk11 defend himself ?

you have your task that I set you.

we have nothing to discuss until you are able to speak the truth in public.

good luck

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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #232 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:29pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

Because they haven't been debunked.
First off there is 0 review for Burt Rutan's presentation which I consider conceded defeat by those that now find it impossible to defend the data manipulation of Mr Gore and the IPCC.

Secondly just as example the best "debunking" for the 97% for example is "oh of the ones that gave opinion it was 97%", despite the miss classification and complaints of authors, despite the larger picture they tend to drag out a tiny tiny amount of papers, most being 5/6/7 to a single author and say "this represents the entire scientific community!". Scientific papers are also a horrible way to gouge consensus, think about it, a paper is about something specific, they apply the scientific method and show results, no where in that process does it say a scientific paper is an opinion piece unless it evaluates potential consequences or action.

That my friend is not debunking, skepticalscience is the worst website I've seen at debunking, almost 100% of the time they do one of two things; they either ad hominem attack the scientists and claim shill, or they set up straw men arguments misrepresenting the data and coming up with some random ass excuse to knock down a false misrepresented argument.

They aren't debunked and if you want to convince people you'll have to use a little bit of logic and evidence, instead of "muh debunking" , "muh skepticalscience debunking", "muh consensussss", it's just not good enough. I'm open minded, I'm open to a real refutation but until that happens the graphs and observed data and plain logic are against you/Gore/IPCC.

Take care.

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« Last Edit: Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:34pm by Vuk11 »

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #233 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:36pm

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:29pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

Because they haven't been debunked.
First off there is 0 review for Burt Rutan's presentation which I consider conceded defeat by those that now find it impossible to defend the data manipulation of Mr Gore and the IPCC.

Secondly just as example the best "debunking" for the 97% for example is "oh of the ones that gave opinion it was 97%", despite the miss classification and complaints of authors, despite the larger picture they tend to drag out a tiny tiny amount of papers, most being 5/6/7 to a single author and say "this represents the entire scientific community!". Scientific papers are also a horrible way to gouge consensus, think about it, a paper is about something specific, they apply the scientific method and show results, no where in that process does it say a scientific paper is an opinion piece unless it evaluates potential consequences or action.

That my friend is not debunking, skepticalscience is the worst website I've seen at debunking, almost 100% of the time they do one of two things; they either ad hominem attack the scientists and claim shill, or they set up straw men arguments misrepresenting the data and coming up with some random ass excuse to knock down a false misrepresented argument.

They aren't debunked and if you want to convince people you'll have to use a little bit of logic and evidence, instead of "muh debunking" , "muh skepticalscience debunking", "muh consensussss", it's just not good enough. I'm open minded, I'm open to a real refutation but until that happens the graphs and observed data and plain logic are against you/Gore/IPCC.

Take care.

have you discussed this with muso and mr. Ajax?

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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #234 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:48pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

What's wrong rabi you have no come backs for the truth....????

cant vuk11 defend himself ?

you have your task that I set you.

we have nothing to discuss until you are able to speak the truth in public.

good luck

Vuk can defend himself and very well at that too...!!!

I just agree with his statements that all....!!!

Funny I thought speaking the truth was your folly....?????

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #235 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:50pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:36pm:

have you discussed this with muso and mr. Ajax?

At length.
The conclusion we came to was ignore the political crap and focus on where the science is "now" and the new knowledge and what it means.

So we're reading the fifth IPCC report (so damn long), the NIPCC report, new peer reviewed papers and trying to get some further understanding.

Since everyone has an opinion and a voice, and since this effects everyone it's up to us to come to informed decisions. So I don't rely on damn internet articles and blogs, however some are useful to draw attention to certain information and opinions that's all. It also adds perspective.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10982 Australia Gender:	Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming Reply #236 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:51pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:36pm: have you discussed this with muso and mr. Ajax? The question is can you or cant you...........???????? what muso thinks is another matter...........!!!!!!!!! I agree with Vuk.........!!!!!!!!!!
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #237 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:51pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:48pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 11:42am:

vuk11

Your long debunked posts cannot be taken seriously

Why do you re-syphon these garbage when it can only lead to your public personal embarrassment?

Discuss this garbage with muso perhaps.

What's wrong rabi you have no come backs for the truth....????

cant vuk11 defend himself ?

you have your task that I set you.

we have nothing to discuss until you are able to speak the truth in public.

good luck

Vuk can defend himself and very well at that too...!!!

I just agree with his statements that all....!!!

Funny I thought speaking the truth was your folly....?????

remember Mr Ajax, you must find predictive models that show cooling or static temperatures as CO2 levels rise.

You do realise that when a model is put together it has scientific theory and assumptions supporting?

this should be good!

still, I am fair man, I am prepared to wait until the end of 2019.

good luck

so far all we can here in this thread is

*crickets*

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Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #238 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:54pm

Basically when in climate debate you can have two kinds and it really needs to be specified at the beginning.

You either act as though we are dealing with credibility or not. If we are we need to work out what is credible and why, before you can move on. However if we can agree that recorded data in it's full set is reliable then we can go off the data and logic.

The issue is in jumping between data and logic, then trailing off into credibility, never coming to a conclusion then going back to throwing around data and no one listening to anyone because "my sources are credible their's aren't so what I say stick and what they say doesn't".

It would be good to remember that the next climate change subject we engage in, sort of setting ground rules for debate.

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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #239 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:56pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 12:51pm:

remember Mr Ajax, you must find predictive models that show cooling or static temperatures as CO2 levels rise.

You do realise that when a model is put together it has scientific theory and assumptions supporting?

this should be good!

still, I am fair man, I am prepared to wait until the end of 2019.

good luck

so far all we can here in this thread is

*crickets*

You are a joke chimp............!!!!!!!

How about defending your AGW religion Rabi instead of wishing there was some made up science from the sceptics......?????

You guys are the ones with computer models that form the foundation of the AGW hypothesis.

Empirical data from the real world has found your computer models wanting.....!!!!!!!

Now what have you to say about that.......!!!!!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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