Australian Politics Forum - Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming

Phemanderac

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #30 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 7:48am

And their "methodology"?

It's all about presenting stuff with integrity mate.

They can "Comment" all they want, and sell you just a different version of snake oil (which kind of demonstrates you only dislike certain brands of snake oil, but not snake oil per se).

Without rigorous (hell even tawdry) methodology, all they are doing is throwing you a bunch of numbers that could well have been pulled out of their arseholes.

So, the words methodology and integrity need to be demonstrated a bit in what you link...

Put all the enlarged lengthy quotes you like in, they will not make it true, just unbelievably big...

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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #31 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:21pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 7:48am:

And their "methodology"?

It's all about presenting stuff with integrity mate.

They can "Comment" all they want, and sell you just a different version of snake oil (which kind of demonstrates you only dislike certain brands of snake oil, but not snake oil per se).

Without rigorous (hell even tawdry) methodology, all they are doing is throwing you a bunch of numbers that could well have been pulled out of their arseholes.

So, the words methodology and integrity need to be demonstrated a bit in what you link...

Put all the enlarged lengthy quotes you like in, they will not make it true, just unbelievably big...

The paper exposed John Cook at the sceptical science blog as anything BUT sceptical.

In fact you could say his paper was very much indeed fraudulent.

And his alarmist views along with his ties to Al Gore are just proof that he's one of those alarmists that tries to scare the be-jesus out of his readersand doesn't think twice about bending the truth.

Quote:

Climate Consensus and ‘Misinformation’: A Rejoinder to Agnotology, Scientific Consensus, and the Teaching and Learning of Climate Change

David R. Legates, Willie Soon, William M. Briggs, Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Abstract

Agnotology is the study of how ignorance arises via circulation of misinformation calculated to mislead. Legates et al. (Sci Educ 22:2007–2017, 2013) had questioned the applicability of agnotology to politically-charged debates. In their reply, Bedford and Cook (Sci Educ 22:2019–2030, 2013), seeking to apply agnotology to climate science, asserted that fossil-fuel interests had promoted doubt about a climate consensus. Their definition of climate ‘misinformation’ was contingent upon the post-modernist assumptions that scientific truth is discernible by measuring a consensus among experts, and that a near unanimous consensus exists. However, inspection of a claim by Cook et al. (Environ Res Lett 8:024024, 2013) of 97.1 % consensus, heavily relied upon by Bedford and Cook, shows just 0.3 % endorsement of the standard definition of consensus: that most warming since 1950 is anthropogenic. Agnotology, then, is a two-edged sword since either side in a debate may claim that general ignorance arises from misinformation allegedly circulated by the other. Significant questions about anthropogenic influences on climate remain. Therefore, Legates et al. appropriately asserted that partisan presentations of controversies stifle debate and have no place in education.

Quote:

"This morning, had a long skype call with a guy working with Al Gore's Climate Reality Project. [...] He brought up the possibility of a partnership. [...] an exciting opportunity and another vindication of what we're doing" - John Cook [Skeptical Science], September 27, 2011

http://www.populartechnology.net/2012/09/skeptical-science-partnership-with-al.h...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #32 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:28pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

So much for "skeptical science", I heard that the sites creator was a bit of a religious guy but damn that's pretty bias. I mean of course they are bias they are for AGW, just like WUWT is against CAGW, but with Al Gore? I'm going to forever consider this another arm of Gore propaganda, I think that's fair enough.

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming Reply #33 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:43am http://www.realsceptic.com/2013/09/16/97-climate-consensus-denial-the-debunkers-... I briefly considered copying, enlarging and pasting certain comments from this, but then thought, meh, people will either read the link or not. There are always more rebuttals to rebuttals etc etc.
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#

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #34 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:15pm

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:28pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

So much for "skeptical science", ...

Before you go worshipping populartechnology.net, consider his behaviour in this forum:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379993344
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380542450

Which is the more credible source?

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #35 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:36pm

.....have the denialist religious cultist crack pot priests in here managed to explain the increase in global thermal retention rate observed over the past 5 or 6 decades?

It seems as though they are even trying to convince themselves of their own lies and spin.

maybe they are sceptical about their own deranged denialist lunacy

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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #36 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 10:05am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

.....have the denialist religious cultist crack pot priests in here managed to explain the increase in global thermal retention rate observed over the past 5 or 6 decades?

All you anthropogenic global warming nutcases should know that we have been warming for the last 400 years or so, coming out of the mini ice age.

So to blame all the warming on human CO2 emissions is a grave error that you somehow cannot comprehend.

Quote:

It seems as though they are even trying to convince themselves of their own lies and spin.

Show me an example..............??????

Quote:

maybe they are sceptical about their own deranged denialist lunacy

Only sceptical about the pseudo science of the IPCC that wants to place a tax on alll humanity on the air we breath.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #37 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 10:40am

Ajax wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

.....have the denialist religious cultist crack pot priests in here managed to explain the increase in global thermal retention rate observed over the past 5 or 6 decades?

All you anthropogenic global warming nutcases should know that we have been warming for the last 400 years or so, coming out of the mini ice age.

So to blame all the warming on human CO2 emissions is a grave error that you somehow cannot comprehend.

Quote:

It seems as though they are even trying to convince themselves of their own lies and spin.

Show me an example..............??????

Quote:

maybe they are sceptical about their own deranged denialist lunacy

Only sceptical about the pseudo science of the IPCC that wants to place a tax on alll humanity on the air we breath.

Hey Ajax. Its Monday morning and you have bundied on I see. I didn't see you on the weekend. Tell me do you work at this cut and paste thing 5 days a week or 7 days a week. Do you just come on this site or a number of sites treating people to your cut and paste skills. Is there any money in it for you? I suspect there is. Come on you can tell us. Do you get paid to come onto sites like this and post stuff you have cut and pasted from denialist sites? Who would pay you and would they pay by the paste or by the hour? The cut and paste operative with no meaningful climate science qualifications telling us the IPCC practices in pseudo science. What a joke. Seems to me with that kind of a background you either got to be really stupid or a real liar.

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #38 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:25am

# wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:28pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

So much for "skeptical science", ...

Before you go worshipping populartechnology.net, consider his behaviour in this forum:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379993344
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380542450

Which is the more credible source?

I like WUWT.com it's not bad.
Even plantsneedc02.org isn't too bad (I've heard it's big oil or gas or something), I only use it for the graphs they post on there. The creator of the website doesn't really need credibility if they are posting legitimate graphs to prove a point.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #39 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:25am:

# wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:28pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

So much for "skeptical science", ...

Before you go worshipping populartechnology.net, consider his behaviour in this forum:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379993344
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380542450

Which is the more credible source?

I like WUWT.com it's not bad.
Even plantsneedc02.org isn't too bad (I've heard it's big oil or gas or something), I only use it for the graphs they post on there. The creator of the website doesn't really need credibility if they are posting legitimate graphs to prove a point.

Hehehe, Im sure you have absolutely no interest in credibility. That's totally unimportant if your only purpose is to confuse and mislead especially kids just new to the debate.

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #40 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 2:04pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Hehehe, Im sure you have absolutely no interest in credibility. That's totally unimportant if your only purpose is to confuse and mislead especially kids just new to the debate.

No we've been through credibility too much, it's done to death and has almost nothing to do with the data they present other than to determine which bias they have AGW or anti-AGW. At this point we all have our opinions of each group from Monckton and the IPCC to skepticalscience and the NIPCC. What more is there to say? Skepticalscience is an Al Gore supporter site run by a religious guy, plantsneedc02 is apparently linked to big oil, IPCC is governmental, the NIPCC is skeptical, evidence of big oil/gas/coal are being thrown around all the time for both skeptics and AGW supporters. What more is there to say?

I'm interested in credibility sure, but it should be taken with a grain of salt and data used by these people shouldn't be held up to the same scrutiny as it all comes from independent scientists, though I think the "trend lines" are ridiculously arbitrary, that much is obvious.

So what more is there to say? Say it and be done.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #41 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:59pm

Vuk11 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 2:04pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Hehehe, Im sure you have absolutely no interest in credibility. That's totally unimportant if your only purpose is to confuse and mislead especially kids just new to the debate.

No we've been through credibility too much, it's done to death and has almost nothing to do with the data they present other than to determine which bias they have AGW or anti-AGW. At this point we all have our opinions of each group from Monckton and the IPCC to skepticalscience and the NIPCC. What more is there to say? Skepticalscience is an Al Gore supporter site run by a religious guy, plantsneedc02 is apparently linked to big oil, IPCC is governmental, the NIPCC is skeptical, evidence of big oil/gas/coal are being thrown around all the time for both skeptics and AGW supporters. What more is there to say?

I'm interested in credibility sure, but it should be taken with a grain of salt and data used by these people shouldn't be held up to the same scrutiny as it all comes from independent scientists, though I think the "trend lines" are ridiculously arbitrary, that much is obvious.

So what more is there to say? Say it and be done.

Its hard to know whether you mean this to be taken seriously. Of course the advantage it has for your fossil fuel industry masters is that you can now argue that the opinion of the non scientists who you rely on to deny human caused global warming are equal in value to the opinion of the dedicated climate scientists who contribute to the IPCC. And taken to its logical extension a preschoolers opinion on climate change is just as credible as a climate scientist's opinion. This really is one of the most absurd propositions I have heard in a very long time. It will be very interesting to see if we see global warming deniers start repeating it throughout the net. I mean, its so nonsensical and illogical that if we start seeing it repeated we really got to wonder about the extent to which the fossil fuel industry has employed minions to spread their propaganda around the net. Can you enlighten us on that? Do you know how extensive it is and how much of what the minions say is pre-organized and orchestrated, complete with suggested arguments and talking points?

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2013 at 7:10pm by ImSpartacus2 »

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Vuk11

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #42 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 7:17pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

Its hard to know whether you mean this approach to be taken seriously. Of course the advantage it has for your fossil fuel industry masters is that you can now argue that the opinion of the non scientists who you rely on to deny human caused global warming are equal in value to the opinion of the dedicated climate scientists who contribute to the IPCC. And taken to its logical extension a preschoolers opinion on climate change is just as credible as a climate scientist's opinion. This really is one of the most absurd propositions I have heard in a very long time. It will be very interesting to see if we see global warming deniers start repeating it throughout the net. I mean, its so nonsensical and illogical that if we start seeing it repeated we really got to wonder about the extent to which the fossil fuel industry has employed minions to spread their propaganda around the net. Can you enlighten us on that? Do you know how extensive it is and how much of what the minions say is pre-organized and orchestrated, complete with suggested arguments and talking points?

So now there's a global conspiracy to debate on the internet? O.o careful I think you've lost the plot mate. I don't think policy decision opinions are swayed by infiltrating small internet communities, I would think that would be left up to the main stream media. The whole point of a forum is to talk and debate, if the opinions of people who disagree with you don't matter then what are you doing here?

If the opinion of someone who disagrees is not important then either is yours neither is anyone's on this forum for that matter. Except maybe Muso due to his experience? lol but I don't think we are here to debate who has the best anecdotal evidence are we?

You also act as if its the oil companies VS the scientists and any scientist that doesn't agree can be ignored and any evidence or opinion put forward that disagrees with you can be discounted. Sounds pretty fascist to me, way to black and white to be taken seriously. The accusations of who the oil/gas/coal companies are funding have been thrown around everywhere. I didn't think you would be blinded by propaganda to ignore debate. Though it doesn't matter, whether you or anyone thinks our opinions matters or not, it's irrelevant, we have a life, we have a voice and I see no reason why I or anyone should not share that with others.

Relax enjoy some graphs or something

Also on the IPCC, investigation or not the climategate emails have sown distrust for them for many including myself and are not so easily brushed aside. Especially the claim that the IPCC is comprised of "the world leading scientists", with information about some authors/members barely being graduates and having bugger all experience. You can brush it aside all you want, but it matters to some people and it's better to convince then to force.

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2013 at 7:53pm by Vuk11 »

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #43 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 8:00pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

This really is one of the most absurd propositions I have heard in a very long time.

Really? More absurd than this?

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

It will be very interesting to see if we see global warming deniers start repeating it throughout the net. I mean, its so nonsensical and illogical that if we start seeing it repeated we really got to wonder about the extent to which the fossil fuel industry has employed minions to spread their propaganda around the net. Can you enlighten us on that? Do you know how extensive it is and how much of what the minions say is pre-organized and orchestrated, complete with suggested arguments and talking points?

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Ajax

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Re: Why I dont believe In Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #44 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 9:50pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Hey Ajax. Its Monday morning and you have bundied on I see. I didn't see you on the weekend. Tell me do you work at this cut and paste thing 5 days a week or 7 days a week. Do you just come on this site or a number of sites treating people to your cut and paste skills. Is there any money in it for you? I suspect there is. Come on you can tell us. Do you get paid to come onto sites like this and post stuff you have cut and pasted from denialist sites? Who would pay you and would they pay by the paste or by the hour? The cut and paste operative with no meaningful climate science qualifications telling us the IPCC practices in pseudo science. What a joke. Seems to me with that kind of a background you either got to be really stupid or a real liar.

What's a matter Spartacus you want a shoulder to cry on..???

OR

Are you one of those that says this is the science sit down listen and shut up....!!!

Sorry champ don't work that way.

We want to see the science that justifies a world tax on the air we breath.

And so far I haven't seen anything but political propaganda.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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