Australian Politics Forum - Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well

Brian Ross

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Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Oct 8^th, 2013 at 11:33pm

Saudi preacher jailed for 8 years for raping, killing daughter

Now, according to many here, this sort of behaviour is condoned by Islam. Yet, here we have the Saudi courts sentencing this vile man to 8 years imprisonment and 500 lashes.

So, who is the one out of touch with Islamic values? The Courts or the Preacher?

I am sure we will duly be informed by FD, Soren, Yadda, et al, as to which is which. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #1 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 1:05am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2013 at 11:33pm:

Saudi preacher jailed for 8 years for raping, killing daughter

Now, according to many here,

this sort of behaviour is condoned by Islam.

Yet, here we have the Saudi courts sentencing this vile man to 8 years imprisonment and 500 lashes.

brian,

You clearly know so little about what ISLAM permits.

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...condoned lawfully excused by ISLAM.

But clearly, it was not excused by the Saudi courts, NOT ON THIS OCCASION.

QUESTION;
Quote:

So, who is the one out of touch with Islamic values?

The Courts or the Preacher?

I am sure we will duly be informed by FD, Soren, Yadda, et al, as to which is which. Roll Eyes

ANSWER;
brian, is the person on this forum who is;
"out of touch with Islamic values".

brian,

In the ABC article, it accurately reports, that;

Quote:

".....a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-09/saudi-preacher-jailed-8-years-for-raping-k...

Quote:

"So, who is the one out of touch with Islamic values?"

brian,

Q.
And why was this 5 year old girl murdered, by her father ?

A.
This 5 year old girl was 'righteously' murdered, by her father, because her father suspected this 5 year old girl of being A PROMISCUOUS SLUT.

Quote:

".....Ghamdi had doubted his daughter's virginity."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-09/saudi-preacher-jailed-8-years-for-raping-k...

p.s.
Q.
Why did this Saudi moslem RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER ?

A.
I am not entirely sure.
BUT.....
It is not uncommon that when moslems 'righteously' murder their own daughters,
THEY COMMONLY 'RIGHTEOUSLY' RAPE THEM TOO - BEFORE THEY MURDER THEM!
It must be a cultural thing ?

Google;
uk, honour killing, muslim daughter in suitcase

In this UK case, the moslem father and the moslem uncle, both raped the victim, Banaz Mahmod, before she was 'righteously' garrotted by her father - in accordance with ISLAMIC values......

Two-hour rape and torture of honour killing girl murdered by her family

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469553/Two-hour-rape-torture-honour-kill...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #2 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 9:21am

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 1:05am:

brian,

Q.

And why was this 5 year old girl murdered, by her father ?

A.
This 5 year old girl was 'righteously' murdered, by her father, because her father suspected this 5 year old girl of being A PROMISCUOUS SLUT.

Quote:

".....Ghamdi had doubted his daughter's virginity."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-09/saudi-preacher-jailed-8-years-for-raping-k...

'Normal' criminal behaviour - in mankind
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0
Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

QUESTION;

What is the influence, the source of the insanity,
which caused Fayhan al-Ghamdi to believe that he was justified in raping "everywhere" and then murdering, his 5 year old daughter ?

What was it, that entered into the mind of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, to cause him to believe that his 5 year old daughter was no longer a virgin, and that therefore caused Fayhan al-Ghamdi to believe that he had the 'lawful' right, to rape his 5 year old daughter "everywhere" and to then murder his 5 year old daughter ?

THE ANSWER IS REVEALED HERE;

Crusade Means Death, Slaughter, Misery
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380006386/32#32

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #3 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 11:11am

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 1:05am:

In the ABC article, it accurately reports, that;

Quote:

".....a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives."

Clearly SA condones filicide because it doesn't carry the death penalty.

In other news, Australia, UK, and the rest of western Europe also condones filicide because it doesn't carry the death penalty.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well Reply #4 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 11:31am Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2013 at 11:33pm: I am sure we will duly be informed by FD, Soren, Yadda, et al, as to which is which. Your predictive abilities are pretty good. So, who'll win the Melbourne Cup this year?
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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #5 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 11:11am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 1:05am:

In the ABC article, it accurately reports, that;

Quote:

".....a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives."

Clearly SA condones filicide

because it doesn't carry the death penalty.

In other news, Australia, UK, and the rest of western Europe also condones filicide because it doesn't carry the death penalty.

Yadda say's this;

#1,
Clearly those who are in charge of the Sharia courts in Saudi Arabia are squirming, because of the [international] public attention that this case/incident has attracted.

True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

gandalf,

I stated this;

Quote:

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...lawfully excused by ISLAM.

#2,
True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

gandalf,

#3,
Is Fayhan al-Ghamdi [the man who raped his daughter "everywhere" and then murdered his 5 year old daughter], a moslem ?

OR,

Has the behaviour of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, so tarnished the reputation of ISLAM and so embarrassed his fellow moslems, that moslems will now 'disown' Fayhan al-Ghamdi, and claim that such a man can never be a real moslem ???

Do you have any comment ???

gandalf,

#4,
Does and did, the law of ISLAM [which absolves a father of any lawful responsibility/guilt when he kills his own children] have any influence upon how Fayhan al-Ghamdi chose to behave towards his daughter ?

OR,

Is to suggest that ISLAM [through the content of the Hadith] could have such an influence, upon the behaviour of a moslem, being unjust towards ISLAM and moslems ?

And is to associate the violent criminal behaviour of such men [as Fayhan al-Ghamdi] with the tenets and laws of ISLAM, an injustice towards ISLAM and moslems ?

And if the violent criminal behaviour of such men [as Fayhan al-Ghamdi] should cause criticism and scrutiny of ISLAMIC tenets and laws, is such criticism and scrutiny of ISLAM an injustice towards ISLAM and moslems ?

Do you have any comment ???

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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True Colours

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #6 - Oct 9^th, 2013 at 11:03pm

There are, as usual, many inaccuracies in the reporting of this matter as well as in the commentary.

First of all, the murderer in this case was not an official preacher as such, but rather he was a man with a dubious criminal background who was promoted by the Saudi media as an example of a supposedly reformed character.

His past involved violence and drugs, and a Saudi court had actually limited his access to his daughter - although sadly this access was not limited enough.

Secondly, the reports of a rape seem to be false.

Thirdly,

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...lawfully excused by ISLAM.

That is quite untrue. Filicide is not punishable by death, but the perpetrator can face long prison terms and corporal punishment.

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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #7 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 9:33am

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

#3,
Is Fayhan al-Ghamdi [the man who raped his daughter "everywhere" and then murdered his 5 year old daughter], a moslem ?

OR,

Has the behaviour of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, so tarnished the reputation of ISLAM and so embarrassed his fellow moslems, that

[will] moslems...now 'disown' Fayhan al-Ghamdi, and claim that such a man can never be a real moslem ???

+++

True Colours wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 11:03pm:

There are, as usual, many inaccuracies in the reporting of this matter as well as in the commentary.

First of all, the murderer in this case was not an official preacher as such, but rather he was

a man with a dubious criminal background

who was promoted by the Saudi media as an example of a supposedly reformed character.

His past involved violence and drugs,

and a Saudi court had actually limited his access to his daughter - although sadly this access was not limited enough.

See my prediction [my post, above],

of how moslems will ALWAYS INVARIABLY seek to disassociate ISLAM/themselves from the actions of a moslem 'perp', whenever an atrocity/wrongdoing is committed by a moslem, and whenever the atrocity/wrongdoing [committed by a moslem] has ['unfortunately'] been publicly exposed to a non-moslem 'constituency'.

i.e.

"But, but, he was not a 'real' moslem!"

i

Quote:

Secondly, the reports of a rape seem to be false.

No contest.

But hardly a credible [after the fact] denial,
.....knowing how moslems ALWAYS INVARIABLY [after the fact] deny ANY association of wrongdoing, with ISLAM, or as a consequence of the influence of 'pure' ISLAM.

AGAIN;

"But, but, he was not a 'real' moslem!"

i

Quote:

Thirdly,

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...lawfully excused by ISLAM.

That is quite untrue.

Google;
filicide in islam

Google;
islam, the religion of filicide

Quote:

Filicide is not punishable by death, but the perpetrator can face long prison terms and corporal punishment.

Filicide [killing of your own child] is not punishable by death, by ISLAMIC law, because

it is always presumed by ISLAMIC jurists that the act of filicide [committed by a moslem], is always associated with the capital crime of apostasy [i.e. a rebellion against the authority of ISLAM, which has been demonstrated, by the victim, in an act of rebellion against the authority his/her parents] by the victim.

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

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« Last Edit: Oct 10^th, 2013 at 9:48am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #8 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 10:47am

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Clearly those who are in charge of the Sharia courts in Saudi Arabia are squirming, because of the [international] public attention that this case/incident has attracted.

True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

I have no idea. Do you have any evidence one way or another?

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

I stated this;

Quote:

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...lawfully excused by ISLAM.

#2,
True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

False. On what basis do you think filicide is excused by islam?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #9 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm

Hmmmmmm!

" .... The pair had been secretly seeing each other, but her family were furious when they found out because Mr Suleimani was not "immediate family" or a strict Muslim. .... "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469553/Two-hour-rape-torture-honour-killing-girl-murdered-family.html

Suffice to say that occurrences of this nature would appear to be committed by adherents of the Islamic faith more often than that of other religions.

Comment?

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Toughen up, Australia!

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Brian Ross

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #10 - Oct 10^th, 2013 at 11:33pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Hmmmmmm!

" .... The pair had been secretly seeing each other, but her family were furious when they found out because Mr Suleimani was not "immediate family" or a strict Muslim. .... "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469553/Two-hour-rape-torture-honour-killing-girl-murdered-family.html

Suffice to say that occurrences of this nature would appear to be committed by adherents of the Islamic faith more often than that of other religions.

Comment?

You of course have some form of statistical evidence to back your claim, Lionel?

Or could it merely be that the media sensationalises it more in your mind when it concerns Muslims?

Other religious and cultural groups have individuals commit honour killings.

But of course, only the Muslims get the stick from you, right? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #11 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 2:10am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 11:33pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Hmmmmmm!

" .... The pair had been secretly seeing each other, but her family were furious when they found out because Mr Suleimani was not "immediate family" or a strict Muslim. .... "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469553/Two-hour-rape-torture-honour-killing-girl-murdered-family.html

Suffice to say that occurrences of this nature would appear to be committed by adherents of the Islamic faith more often than that of other religions.

Comment?

You of course have some form of statistical evidence to back your claim, Lionel?

Or could it merely be that the media sensationalises it more in your mind when it concerns Muslims?

Other religious and cultural groups have individuals commit honour killings.

But of course, only the Muslims get the stick from you, right? Roll Eyes

But brian, is it wrong for we non-moslems to criticise this apparently 'common' behaviour among such a virtuous community of people ?

Particularly when the virtue of the virtuous moslem community can be so easily [and mistakenly] tarnished by so many examples of this 'common' aberrant behaviour ?

Because absolutely everyone knows, what high standards of personal and community conduct, moslems aspire to.....

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

Personally, i expect all members of the virtuous moslem community to maintain higher standards of moral conduct, than these apparently 'common' filicide incidents would indicate. Tongue

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #12 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 2:24am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Clearly those who are in charge of the Sharia courts in Saudi Arabia are squirming, because of the [international] public attention that this case/incident has attracted.

True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

I have no idea. Do you have any evidence one way or another?

Yadda wrote on Oct 9^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

I stated this;

Quote:

A moslem, murdering his daughter, IS....
...lawfully excused by ISLAM.

#2,
True or false ?

Do you have any comment ???

False.

On what basis do you think filicide is excused by islam?

Errr, because of its [i.e. filicide] common occurrence within all moslem communities.

Not so ???

Google;
filicide in islam

Google;
islam, the religion of filicide

+++

gandalf,

YOU ASK;
On what basis do i think that filicide can be 'excused' by individual moslems ?
....can be 'excused' by the worldwide moslem community ?
....can be 'excused' by ISLAM ?

post #7, this thread;
Quote:

Filicide [killing of your own child] is not punishable by death, by ISLAMIC law, because

it is always presumed by ISLAMIC jurists that the act of filicide [committed by a moslem], is always associated with the capital crime of apostasy [i.e. a rebellion against the authority of ISLAM, which has been demonstrated, by the victim, in an act of rebellion against the authority his/her parents] by the victim.

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well Reply #13 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:12am Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 2:24am: Errr, because of its [i.e. filicide] common occurrence within all moslem communities. Define "common". I haven't seen any stats, have you? Is it a higher rate than in the non-muslim community?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

True Colours

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Re: Saudi extremist gaoled with 500 lashes as well
Reply #14 - Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:37am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:12am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 2:24am:

Errr, because of its [i.e. filicide] common occurrence within all moslem communities.

Define "common".

I haven't seen any stats, have you? Is it a higher rate than in the non-muslim community?

Yadda doesn't waste his time with facts.

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