"Where did the universe come from, and why?"

... and the correct response to these questions is ...

These two questions themselves are predicated upon the assumption that the 'answers' are able to be expressed in words. 

Next time you're out and about ~ have a look at the size of the average person's head. The brain capacity is way too small for calculating anything beyond the very most basics of understanding the fundamentals of Nature, and the various sciences that makes the universe spin and evolve.

Bottom line ... If you don't know the answers to these two questions, then it's a logical fallacy to then suppose that the fall-back position and the default answer must leave us with the conclusion that there is a Creator.

********

For me personally, it doesn't matter if there are a hundred Gods Out There ~ or none.

I've seen enough to know that 'justice-and-mercy ... sympathy-and-understanding' are a product of the human capacity for empathizing with ones fellow human beings.   


 

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


You misunderstood me.

I meant that the answers to these type of questions are best given in the form of equations ~ just as Einstein 'explained' his various insights.

Needless to say, it will eventually be computer-models that will answer a lot of the questions that cosmologists will continue to ask in the future.

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


Yes. It only requires that we put enough known elements into the Final Equation for a credible Answer to emerge.

We'll have to be patient, TB.

The Higgs-Boson Particle has only just been proven to exist. The frontiers of knowledge about our universe is expanding all the time.

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


Wrong. They would be in total harmony with one another just the same as with an insect colony.

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


Please explain.

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


Allah?  Is that where we've been heading here? 

True Colours wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:


Is it any wonder I feel like Christ-on-the-Cross sometimes ~ my humanity denied, my virtue insulted and abused, and my Essential Goodness scorned and reviled by those who have eyes but who do not wish to see ... ?

Enjoy the rest of your evening, TB.

In the Fullness of Time you may yet become one of my loyal disciples, at which time I will wash your feet to demonstrate my humility.

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:06pm:



That is a good [and useful] question, muso.

But even for those of us who believe that there is a God, the answer is way, way, beyond our ken.




One thing that makes sense though......
.....the more that we humans come to know and to understand about our own circumstances,
.....the more that we humans come to understand how little we 'know'.



Mostly, human knowledge and understanding, imo, is has been revealed to be an endless 'game', of 'advancing' suppositions.

???





Ecclesiastes 1:13
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
14  I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.



The vanity of man is boundless.

I am speaking from personal experience.      

Yadda wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 12:09am:



To which I add that comprehending a purely material universe is also beyond our ken.
God is unimaginable.
Spontaneous appearance of matter, out of nothing, is unimaginable if you stay within the bounds of science.
Spontaneously appearing matter then spontaneously taking the leap to house intelligence - totally unimaginable.

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:06pm:





Posing that kind of question, creates a very useful device for all persons who desire to entertain the idea [the belief] of atheism.

As, that particular question succeeds in bringing 'the question' of the existence of [a hidden, an invisible] God, back to a very mundane and earthy level of enquiry.

But still [and if you do believe that there is a God], 'the question' [#1,] remains an intriguing and valid question.

To ask, 'Where did God come from?', is a valid Q.





Another Q;

#2, If God declares [in scripture] that he deserves and desires to be worshipped and adored [and feared!] [AND, that mankind is his creation], then why does God so comprehensively seek to [and does succeed in,] hiding his [formal] existence, from the understanding of man[kind] ?

We can seek to propose answers  [to #1, #2].

But any answers that we [mankind] would propose, would 1st, have to make assumptions, about the nature and character of God.

But [assuming such a God exists] do we really know anything, about either 'the nature' and 'the circumstance' of God ?




But i wouldn't put the answers to such questions [#1, #2] in the realm of unknowable, or unimaginable.

Because simple reason would suggest that [if such a God exists, then] answers to those questions do exist, and are 'knowable'.

It is just that, at this juncture, we do not know the answer(s).






+++


The God of creation is HOLY [pure].

What does that mean ?

What does the word HOLY mean ?

What is the implication for all men, of God's holiness ?





Numbers 16:5
And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.




Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9  Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.


Who is 'Israel' ?

Why does God choose Israel ?

muso wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 9:59am:



muso,

I am Israel, you are Israel, gandalf is Israel.

[And we in this world, do worship at the statue of Baal.]



Romans 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
.....
18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


But it is for us, to find grace ['favour'] in God's sight.

Read Exodus 33:12-19

If gandalf is Israel, will gandalf find grace, in God's sight ?

Do you know what it takes, muso ?







Quote:


Can Science and religion be compatible?

Hmmmm ?

Well, muso, i think that the question should be; Can Science and religion be separated ?

Does Science have established [functioning] temples ?

Does Science have holy altars, and does Science have 'authorised', [seemingly] immutable doctrines ?

And [like religion] does science create suppositions and call those suppositions, truth ?

Hmmmm ?

Or am i being too rude, to slander the purity of science in such a way ?








Quote:



muso,

I do not know how God created life, nor how God created this 'reality'.

When i meditate upon those questions, i realise what a puny 'thing' i am.

I am in awe of God.

I do not have any understanding of my own being/existence.

I believe, that i understand only a minute part, about my own circumstances in this temporal world.

I understand very, very little, about the 'reality' which manifests itself, as this temporal world [and universe].

I do not understand my 'beginnings'.

I do not understand or know what my 'end' will be.

I am in awe of God, and i am intrigued by his existence, and by his interest in me.

I am intrigued by the !!REALITY!! [the spirit realm] in which [i assume], 'God' exists.

I do not understand or know what 'spirit' is.

And yet, when i leave here [when i leave this temporal world], it is my deep abiding desire, to go to, and 'to be', to exist, in the enveloping, loving presence of, 'God'.



Psalms 84:10
....I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

I would rather NOT EXIST, than to dwell in 'the darkness'.



From my own perspective ['mountain top'] many of us are destined for the darkness.

Is God a righteous being, that so many of us seem destined for the darkness ?


Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Ezekiel 33:11
....As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live....

muso wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:



Why ?

Do you think that Cardinal Baronius had a better 'vantage point' than yourself ?
[i.e. 'the path',  is YOUR path muso. what do YOU see ? ]


muso,

What we believe [at this point in time] informs our choices [and therefore our path forward, from this point in time].

And in turn, our path will determine what we perceive, from our current vantage point [and, what we will come to believe].

No ?





+++

"We can learn a great deal from observation - from just opening our eyes. The fine detail of existence and of life are pretty awe-inspiring.

You can call it the processes and the circumstances of how life came about or regard it as the processes of God if you prefer."

yadda....
this expressed concept, defining barbarism
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1325206797/10#10
Quote:






+++

"As a theist, do you think we're meant to open our eyes or avert our gaze from such natural processes? "

I am afraid that i may offend you, muso, if i really stated what i believe.

But here is a version;

Magicians create illusions, by diverting our attention.    No ?

Do you believe what you see ?    I do [believe what i see in this world].     And i know that i am 'meant' to [....believe what i see].      And i believe that what i believe, is an illusion.

So where does that leave me ?

Am i confused ?

No.

Do you believe that i am confused, muso ?

Or am i just 'mistaken' ?

"The Bible teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."

Cardinal Baronius


John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:...
Jesus Christ


The Bible teaches us how to go to heaven how we may approach a holy God.
Yadda


Men respect other men.

CORRECTION;
Men respect other men, at the cost of what is true.       i.e. The world corrupts all of us. [That is its purpose!] And we corrupt each other.    [I do not believe, that we will discover, what we are meant to discover, by focusing upon by looking for truth in this world.       e.g. By seeking truth, in/through human wisdom/'science' ]

But continue on, with your fascination of this natural world and universe, if you must muso.

Coz it is 100% real!!!!                   Honest!          

"The fine detail of existence and of life are pretty awe-inspiring."

muso,

Why is it so important for you to focus so much your attention upon

'the amazing processes of the natural world'

?

i.e.
Why have you become so fascinated by the illusion ?



And between the two of us, who is the one disrespecting God more ?

muso wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 9:59am: