Australian Politics Forum - Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.

namnugenot

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #15 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:15pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

https://smithlhhsb122.wikispaces.com/file/view/precambrian.jpg/423004012/precamb...http://palaeos.com/paleozoic/cambrian/images/Burgess1.jpg http://www.nature.nps.gov/geology/usgsnps/pltec/sc514ma.jpg

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

When did the first mammals appear in earths history?

When did the first hominids appear?

You want to return Everybody and everything to the comforts of a 0.7% CO2 atmospheric level?

Where do you get your lies from?

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
.

I see.... so now you are claiming that CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas

Again...you misrepresent me...and greenhouse gases for that matter...ALL OF THEM...they are beneficial and make the planet habitable.

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namnugenot

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #16 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

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muso

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #17 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

300 double that
1. 600 double that
2. 1200 double that
3. 2400 double that
4. 4800 double that
5. 9600.

let's say 4 and a bit doublings at 3 degrees per doubling. 12-16 plus 4 = 16-20 degrees C deep ocean temperature. The deep ocean was where life existed during the Cambrian Period.

Of course it's more than that because of feedbacks. The estimates that I've seen show average ocean temperatures of around 40 degrees C and average atmospheric temperatures of around 50 degrees during the Cambrian, but obviously cooler than that on the ocean floor.

Then you'd have to take into account the very different ocean currents, the totally different landmass configuration, the difference in the sun's luminosity and quite a few other factors.

Now what was your argument again? I must have missed it.

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muso

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #18 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #19 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

...and that estimate does not take into account any predictable and unforseen tipping points

you seem to have found another fired in here muso

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namnugenot

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #20 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #21 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

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namnugenot

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #22 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:52pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

...and that estimate does not take into account any predictable and unforseen tipping points

you seem to have found another fired in here muso

What do you mean "unforseen"...that would suggest you don't know everything...you don't even know what you're uncertain about...nice to know.

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namnugenot

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #23 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:55pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

I'm friendly with everyone...didn't I say I liked you...despite all the nasty and hurtful things you've said about me.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #24 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:00pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:55pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

I'm friendly with everyone...didn't I say I liked you...despite all the nasty and hurtful things you've said about me.

Still cant find a model that predicts a cooling/static temperature scenario as CO2 levels rise?

you should be honoured to receive a bio-technical insult from me.

I don't just hand them out willy nilly, you filthy cast of smelly rodent excrement mould

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muso

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #25 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:46pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

What happens to the vapour pressure of H2O as you drop the temperature?

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Innocent bystander Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4220 Gender:	Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet. Reply #26 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:04pm The only tipping point we should really worry about is the global warming cults tipping point into madness which has already been reached judging from this board.
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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet. Reply #27 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:06pm The good old Clausius-Claperyon equation P = A exp (- DHvap / R T) And if you have two (T,P) conditions it looks something like this P1 DHvap 1 1 ln (---) = ---- (--- - ---) P2 R T2 T1 so one would expect the vapour pressure to decrease as temperature decreases
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #28 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:09pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:04pm:

The only tipping point we should really worry about is the global warming cults tipping point into madness which has already been reached judging from this board. Cheesy

you're right - its all one big scam that has hypnotised every scientific body in the world, as well as every fossil fuel corporation

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muso

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Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Reply #29 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:34pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:06pm:

The good old Clausius-Claperyon equation

P = A exp (- DHvap / R T)

And if you have two (T,P) conditions it looks something like this

   P1    DHvap 1    1
ln (---) = ----    (--- - ---)
   P2    R       T2 T1

so one would expect the vapour pressure to decrease as temperature decreases

Namgenot has gone to ask Anthony Watts if it's ok to use that equation. Grin

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