Australian Politics Forum - Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?

Phemanderac

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #420 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 10:37am

NO.

Whilst the economic system that is capitalism certainly has the mechanisms (demonstrably) in place so that individuals can exploit workers, the ism itself is simply a system. Just like Communism/Socialism etc, are merely economic systems or models.

It is people who mess with it and act corruptly or exploitatively (or usually both simultaneously). Neither system of itself is political, however, history demonstrates both systems have been generally hijacked to fulfil ideological/political aims. I think being beholden to any ism is dangerous, because, it would seem that our species overall is not generally trust worthy.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #421 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 10:52am

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

NO.

Whilst the economic system that is capitalism certainly has the mechanisms (demonstrably) in place so that individuals can exploit workers, the ism itself is simply a system. Just like Communism/Socialism etc, are merely economic systems or models.

It is people who mess with it and act corruptly or exploitatively (or usually both simultaneously). Neither system of itself is political, however, history demonstrates both systems have been generally hijacked to fulfil ideological/political aims. I think being beholden to any ism is dangerous, because, it would seem that our species overall is not generally trust worthy.

There is a distinct difference between an economic model (like capitalism or the barter system) and a political ideology (such as socialism or democracy). These systems interact with other social and environmental systems which makes the overall effects or picture a little more complicated. Even the scientific method which is arguably Humankind's most objective invention and which is a self correcting rational tool (with minimum dogma) nevertheless interacts with society and is influenced by politics and economics etc.

A good example of this are the economic structures operating in apparently quite diverse countries

China = State run pseudo capitalist system
USA = Corporately run pseudo capitalist system

Both are tyrannical in nature and quasi fascist societies

The differences are superficial if you look deeply.

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|dev|null

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #422 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #423 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:33am

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

Well put.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #424 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:43am

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

Yes I agree, Well put

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #425 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:15pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

NO.

Whilst the economic system that is capitalism certainly has the mechanisms (demonstrably) in place so that individuals can exploit workers, the ism itself is simply a system. Just like Communism/Socialism etc, are merely economic systems or models.

It is people who mess with it and act corruptly or exploitative (or usually both simultaneously). Neither system of itself is political, however, history demonstrates both systems have been generally hijacked to fulfil ideological/political aims. I think being beholden to any ism is dangerous, because, it would seem that our species overall is not generally trust worthy.

Don't agree sorry. What isn't an ism? Whatever standards or system I adopt for myself to govern the way I lead my life is an ism, be it a standard/system commonly adopted by others, eg socialism capitalism, Buddhism or one I have developed myself for myself. Even a system that says i will deal with each situation as it presents itself at the time is an ism. But some isms are better suited to derive certain results then others. Don't get me wrong, no system is perfect as we all well know, but some systems are better then others (in the sense that overall the advantages outnumber the disadvantages). Capitalism makes some people extraordinarily rich and I also believe that in certain things it has made society more tolerant, overall (because if you are judgmental of other people's differences, you are less likely to secure a sale) but the price society has to pay in poverty, exploitation, power manipulation, war, environmental degradation, community breakdown, dehumanization, deceit, etc is way too great a price to pay just so a few little men and women can feel they're better then the rest of us. Frankly, this " I hate all ism's" approach is a bit of a cop out; it relieves you of having to make a decision,.

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« Last Edit: Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:22pm by ImSpartacus2 »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #426 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #427 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:44pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

The slave based economic model has never changed.

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Karnal

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #428 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

Good propaganda, comrade. We progressives are interested in workers rights in developed countries. We're quite happy for workers in developing countries to be exploited so we can buy cheaper and cheaper goods.

Bangladesh is little more than a slave economy too.

And this is progress.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #429 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:52pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

Good propaganda, comrade. We progressives are interested in workers rights in developed countries. We're quite happy for workers in developing countries to be exploited so we can buy cheaper and cheaper goods.

Bangladesh is little more than a slave economy too.

And this is progress.

....exploited by the fascist corporate monster that emerged in developed countries and spreads like an immoral viral disease.

The monster you worship as you lay chained and locked up in your jail thinking you are free.

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aquascoot

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #430 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:55pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

Good propaganda, comrade. We progressives are interested in workers rights in developed countries. We're quite happy for workers in developing countries to be exploited so we can buy cheaper and cheaper goods.

Bangladesh is little more than a slave economy too.

And this is progress.

possibly karmal, but after the recent factory disaster which killed many bangladeshi workers, the greens called for a boycott on the buying of clothes from bangladesh.
result, workers sacked and starvation and poverty. the greens and socialist alliance nutbags rarely think things thru. they are, in the main, daft, naive and unhelpful.

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers? Reply #431 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:55pm Quote: It didn't start with banks it start with government. Government bows to the wishes of banks and corps. When things go wrong it's the governments fault. No worries, the workers always pick up the tab anyway. Keep it up free capitalists, doing a great job
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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35251 Gender:	Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers? Reply #432 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:56pm chimp logic.....daft, naive and unhelpful
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aquascoot

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #433 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:00pm

Grey wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:55pm:

Quote:

It didn't start with banks it start with government.

Government bows to the wishes of banks and corps. When things go wrong it's the governments fault. No worries, the workers always pick up the tab anyway.

Keep it up free capitalists, doing a great job Grin

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

so you would rather live in a government driven socialist society like north korea and eat grass, then in a capitalist driven market economy like singapore and enjoy the vigor and success of capitalism.

i think you like capitalist society grey and are happen to be a parasite on the hard work of business which builds all capitalist societies. i dont see much to eat coming out of the ACT. just empty words.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Reply #434 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 3:28pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:45am:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

Why don't you credit your sources? Ayn Rand? Yea gods! Individual rights at the expense of destroying society! Cheesy

Google....Its really not hard, plus im on my phone and its difficult at best!

Your failure to address the point I made about Rand is noted.

Rand and other such advocates of capitalism attack the very basis of civilisation - collective, co-operative actions to create something which is much greater than the sum of it's individual components. Without such collective, co-operative action, we would not have cities, we would not have edifices such as the Pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on across the world. We would not have networks such as the internet. We originally banded together for protection, now we band together for the synergistic effect of working together as a collective. Cheesy

It's funny you mention the Pyramids and Parthenon. Egypt and Greece were slave economies. I thought "progressives" were interested in workers' rights? Hilarious.

Good propaganda, comrade. We progressives are interested in workers rights in developed countries. We're quite happy for workers in developing countries to be exploited so we can buy cheaper and cheaper goods.

Bangladesh is little more than a slave economy too.

And this is progress.

Hot Breath's insinuation was that Ancient Egypt and Greece were some kind of workers' paradise. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Poll
Question: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?
Yes, ofcause. 18 (72.0%) No, it doesnt 7 (28.0%) Total votes: 25 « Created by: Pantheon on: Oct 29^th, 2013 at 9:31am »