Australian Politics Forum - Windmills and birds

Ajax

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #60 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:34pm

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:27pm:

That article conveniently just shows one side of the ledger.

Now again - Why is electricity so cheap to the consumer in the US?

It's not brain surgery.

Fossil fuels Cheesy

Don't believe me..........???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/electricity-declines-50-in-u-s-as-shale...

Dude price dropped 50%.......!!!!!!!!

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« Last Edit: Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:42pm by Ajax »

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muso

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #61 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:39pm

Come on guys. We've just been talking about it.

Quote:

Its a great graph that, makes you wanna compare Australia with say Canada, or even the USA....we have the green twats here in Australia and at the UN to thank for our power prices

Crap.

It's because they subsidise it to the hilt. Consumers in the US don't pay the real cost of generation. In Canada, 64% is renewable Hydro Electricity anyway, so it's already quite cheap.

http://www.misi-net.com/publications/NEI-1011.pdf

Oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period.

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#

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #62 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:43pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 7:12pm:

# wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 3:35pm:

...
70 billion in subsidies per year for renewable energy in Australia?
...

You might like to wash your hands. There's no telling what orifice Nova pulled that figure from.

As far as I can tell, she's comparing global renewables subsidies to Australian fossil fuel subsidies. According to Nova, the IEA puts fossil fuel subsidies at ten times those for renewables. The Guardian says it's 5 times.

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

# wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

As far as I can tell, she's comparing global renewables subsidies to Australian fossil fuel subsidies. According to Nova, the IEA puts fossil fuel subsidies at ten times those for renewables. The Guardian says it's 5 times.

Now why doesn't that surprise me? Joanne Nova lying.... again?

Quite typical of the alarmist camp to distort sentences.

When are you guys going to grow up and face reality.

chimp said that not Jo.

If you care to take a look.

No Ajax, it was Jo Nova. In fact, I got the links from her blog post. She's deliberately confusing and cherry-picking.

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Ajax

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #63 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:44pm

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:39pm:

Come on guys. We've just been talking about it.

Quote:

Its a great graph that, makes you wanna compare Australia with say Canada, or even the USA....we have the green twats here in Australia and at the UN to thank for our power prices

Crap.

It's because they subsidise it to the hilt. Consumers in the US don't pay the real cost of generation. In Canada, 64% is renewable Hydro Electricity anyway, so it's already quite cheap.

http://www.misi-net.com/publications/NEI-1011.pdf

Oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period.

I'm with chimp on this one, no corporations should receive government subsidies.

And if they don't like it they can nik off to where ever they came from.

Our government will take over.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #64 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:44pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:34pm:

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:27pm:

That article conveniently just shows one side of the ledger.

Now again - Why is electricity so cheap to the consumer in the US?

It's not brain surgery.

Fossil fuels Cheesy

Don't believe me..........???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/electricity-declines-50-in-u-s-as-shale...

Dude price dropped 50%.......!!!!!!!!

That's 2012. The figures were from 2010. But it's a valid point. LNG is rapidly taking over as a major energy source worldwide.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #65 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:46pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:02pm:

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 7:57pm:

$1900 Billion dollars multiplied by 0.16 = $304 billion. So renewables should get subsidies of $304 billion globally even for parity with fossil fuel generation. In fact they only get $70 billion.

Quote:

About 16% of global final energy consumption comes from renewable resources.

http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default.asp?DocumentID=2647&ArticleID...

That's a 2010 figure, so it's probably higher now.

I would prefer that NO sector gets subsidies and tax breaks (the fossil fuel and nuclear sector corporate board rooms tremble in fear when they hear this)

So firstly you level the playing field. Then you regulate the banking and financial sectors so that they don't CORRUPTLY favour money lending to specific sectors (which is the case at the moment)

In that scenario, even the inefficient corpocracy and corrupt stock markets cant stop renewables from flourishing globally

Come on chimp

If they can manipulate our banking system, if they can manipulate our fossil fuels.....!!!!

What's going to stop them manipulating renewable energy..!!

I hear where you're coming from but is it wishful thinking..??

I prefer an anarchistic leaning world.

A world without RULERS - and with rules that are democratically arrived at by direct participation by ALL citizens. No lobby groups, No vested interests, No Kings, No slaves, No smacking RULERS

In that scenario - the problems of the world will still be with us, but the burden wouldn't be dumped upon specific slave classes.

Its sounds like some sort of nirvana, idealist dream world

,,,,but its just common sense - survival

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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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muso

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #66 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:47pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:44pm:

I'm with chimp on this one, no corporations should receive government subsidies.

And if they don't like it they can nik off to where ever they came from.

Our government will take over.

Well, we finally have something that we all agree on.

At least the playing field should be level. It's kind of ridiculous that coal is being subsidised worldwide more than renewable energy.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10982 Australia Gender:	Re: Windmills and birds Reply #67 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:49pm # wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:43pm: No Ajax, it was Jo Nova. In fact, I got the links from her blog post. She's deliberately confusing and cherry-picking. If you follow the link it leads you here. There can be no misunderstanding hash. The quote is right there.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Windmills and birds Reply #68 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:55pm Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:49pm: If you follow the link it leads you here. There can be no misunderstanding hash. The quote is right there. http://i43.tinypic.com/2e54oqb.jpg Yes. I can read. It says Government burn (should be burns, but we'll forgive her poor grammar). Which government ?
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #69 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:57pm

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:44pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:34pm:

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:27pm:

That article conveniently just shows one side of the ledger.

Now again - Why is electricity so cheap to the consumer in the US?

It's not brain surgery.

Fossil fuels Cheesy

Don't believe me..........???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/electricity-declines-50-in-u-s-as-shale...

Dude price dropped 50%.......!!!!!!!!

That's 2012. The figures were from 2010. But it's a valid point. LNG is rapidly taking over as a major energy source worldwide.

...and its emission are less - but the finite fossil fuel reserves problem and the CO2 emissions still remain.

Australia for example should have most of its transport run on CNG.

You can currently buy a compressor (around $2000 fitted) that fits onto your domestic gas supply and fill your CNG tank in your vehicle. Cost estimate is less than 15 cents per litre.

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OES_CNG_Home_Unit_lower.jpg (23 KB | 47 )

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Ajax

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #70 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:59pm

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:47pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:44pm:

I'm with chimp on this one, no corporations should receive government subsidies.

And if they don't like it they can nik off to where ever they came from.

Our government will take over.

Well, we finally have something that we all agree on.

At least the playing field should be level. It's kind of ridiculous that coal is being subsidised worldwide more than renewable energy.

Like I have been saying all along i'm not against renewables as long as they are cheap as fossil fuels.

But at this moment in time straight from the horses mouth that master of the universe Jorgen Randers who thinks we need saving from ourselves.

go to the 36 minute mark and listen to what he says about the price of renewables

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #71 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:59pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:46pm:

I prefer an anarchistic leaning world.

A world without RULERS - and with rules that are democratically arrived at by direct participation by ALL citizens. No lobby groups, No vested interests, No Kings, No slaves, No smacking RULERS

A world where you can say things like:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 3:30pm:

So I assume when you two clowns are expressing concern about the total global population, you are being good little bigoted, racially deranged freak fascists

- and get off with it? Grin

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Ajax

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #72 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 9:03pm

muso wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:55pm:

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:49pm:

If you follow the link it leads you here.

There can be no misunderstanding hash.

The quote is right there.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2e54oqb.jpg

Yes. I can read. It says Government burn (should be burns, but we'll forgive her poor grammar).

Which government ?

Its captioned in the quote.

Quote:

“More than US$70 billion of support is provided by governments to renewable energy production and consumption worldwide.”

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/13/energy-iea-gas-idUKL5E8KD4ZJ20120913

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #73 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 9:06pm

Hey guys we can replace coal with renewable energy.

But what about oil.........how can we replace...oil.....????

Think about it all forms of packaging, your computer or anything made of plastic..............????

And ofcourse the obvious fuel for cars...???..etc...!!!

How do you suggest we replace plastics of all forms....????

Heaven forbid what about condoms.....??????

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« Last Edit: Oct 31^st, 2013 at 9:20pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #74 - Oct 31^st, 2013 at 9:14pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:59pm:

Like I have been saying all along i'm not against renewables as long as they are cheap as fossil fuels.

But at this moment in time straight from the horses mouth that master of the universe Jorgen Randers who thinks we need saving from ourselves.

That's just one lone horse at the moment. You'll find a lot more studies showing that renewable energy is approaching or already at parity, and falling in price all the time.
http://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science/coal-more-risky-renewables

That's just one of them, and it's not talking about grid parity, which has already been reached.

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