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Windmills and birds (Read 12897 times)
Ajax
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #90 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 5:02pm
 
# wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:26am:
Given how far we've drifted off-topic, I take it we're agreed that windmills are less of a risk to bird-life than most, if not all, other means' of electricity generation.


Hash your going to have to decide which part of your green backside is going to get the better of you on this one....!!!

Quote:
Thousands of birds paying a high price for green energy

As Australia pushes to meet its Mandatory Renewable Energy Targets, wind farms are proliferating across the country.

Already over 50 projects supply around 20 per cent of the country's clean energy. But overseas experience shows that thousands of rare birds are being killed by turbines each year, and no one has a solution to the problem.

Twitcher Sue Taylor writes about the conflict between green energy advocates and bird enthusiasts.

rest here
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/ockhamsrazor/bird-strikes-at-wind-f...
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#
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #91 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:15pm
 
Canada Ranks Top Bird Killers, Wind Turbines Not Even Close To The Top


This article is about debunking myths (deliberately perpetrated) regarding wind energy. First, watch the video:


Billion dollar businesses and billion dollar interests have a lot of money they can use to attack their up-and-coming competitors. Even if those competitors are driven by clear thinking and clean energy, money directed in an effective way can make them look bad. Promoting misinformation lacks integrity, but it’s very common within large industries and economic sectors.

People are busy. They do not have the time to research each myth out there. Thus, we sometimes get fooled. Here at CleanTechnica, we try to make it a bit easier to get some straight-up, correct information. Greed-driven myths hurt the world, and our #1 goal is simply to help the world.

...

I came upon this bird directly in front of the door of my local library. The bird hit the glass of the library door and died. Yes, 3rd on the list of things that cause birds to die, is collisions with buildings.

Peter Sinclair provides us with The List of Top Bird Killers (via CBC):

1. Domestic and feral cats: 200 million
2. Power lines, collisions and electrocutions: 25 million
3. Collisions with houses or buildings: 25 million
4. Vehicle collisions: 14 million
5. Game bird hunting: 5 million
6. Agricultural pesticides 2.7 million
7. Agricultural mowing: 2.2 million young birds, equivalent to one million adult birds
8. Commercial forestry: 1.4 million nests, equivalent to 900,000 adult birds
9. Communications towers: 220,000


A resource that cannot be depleted or sacrificed is wind. Wind is not toxic (unless it carries pesticides, that is). Wind cuts global warming pollution. Wind turbines use much, much less water than fossil fuel power plants, nuclear power plants, and even solar power plants. Wind does not use slave labor to produce it. (If I am wrong about this, please comment and let us know.)

Another Peter, Peter Singer also communicates change and generates extraordinary vibrations of thought considering humanitarian value systems. Central reasoning of Peter Singer is bestowed as follows: “If we can prevent something bad without sacrificing anything of comparable significance, we ought to do it.”

Wind power doesn’t even make the list above. Wind turbines have been increasingly improved in a way as to minimize bird deaths. We need wind power, and it’s nice to know that it’s not the big bird killer it’s made out to be. For sure, there is room for improvement, but there almost always is, and that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use the best, cleanest, safest options we have.
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #92 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:51pm
 
# wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:15pm:
1. Domestic and feral cats: 200 million
2. Power lines, collisions and electrocutions: 25 million
3. Collisions with houses or buildings: 25 million
4. Vehicle collisions: 14 million
5. Game bird hunting: 5 million
6. Agricultural pesticides 2.7 million
7. Agricultural mowing: 2.2 million young birds, equivalent to one million adult birds
8. Commercial forestry: 1.4 million nests, equivalent to 900,000 adult birds
9. Communications towers: 220,000



So in conclusion the health of the bird populations around the world can be vastly improved by simply replacing the above structures and activities with Wind Turbines.

It is the only logical course of action to take. I am sure Mr Ajax would agree whole heartedly, seeing as he has express deep concern for the effects of Wind Turbines on the environment and on wild life.

...

...
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muso
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #93 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:22pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:51pm:
# wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:15pm:
1. Domestic and feral cats: 200 million
2. Power lines, collisions and electrocutions: 25 million
3. Collisions with houses or buildings: 25 million
4. Vehicle collisions: 14 million
5. Game bird hunting: 5 million
6. Agricultural pesticides 2.7 million
7. Agricultural mowing: 2.2 million young birds, equivalent to one million adult birds
8. Commercial forestry: 1.4 million nests, equivalent to 900,000 adult birds
9. Communications towers: 220,000



So in conclusion the health of the bird populations around the world can be vastly improved by simply replacing the above structures and activities with Wind Turbines.

It is the only logical course of action to take. I am sure Mr Ajax would agree whole heartedly, seeing as he has express deep concern for the effects of Wind Turbines on the environment and on wild life.


...
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« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2013 at 6:11pm by muso »  

windmillcat.gif (219 KB | 74 )
windmillcat.gif

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Ajax
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #94 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:34am
 
a barrier is a barrier no matter what you call it.....??
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Ajax
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #95 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:45am
 
muso wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 9:32pm:
Materialism can be sustainable. Just imagine a huge HVDC worldwide grid fed by Solar arrays in every continent. No need for storage.

I have no intention of giving up my lifestyle. The same lifestyle is possible using renewable energy.


The club of rome are the high priests of anthropogenic global warming, for forty years they have been working to pass carbon pricing on a global scale.

They will also get a fair chunk of the revenue through there various organisations.

Now if you look at their ideology muso, it will most certainly change your life style if the environmental movement implements all its agendas.

Denial is futile you will be assimilated....LOL....!!!!!!
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #96 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 12:16pm
 
Ajax wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:45am:
muso wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 9:32pm:
Materialism can be sustainable. Just imagine a huge HVDC worldwide grid fed by Solar arrays in every continent. No need for storage.

I have no intention of giving up my lifestyle. The same lifestyle is possible using renewable energy.


The club of rome are the high priests of anthropogenic global warming, for forty years they have been working to pass carbon pricing on a global scale.

They will also get a fair chunk of the revenue through there various organisations.

Now if you look at their ideology muso, it will most certainly change your life style if the environmental movement implements all its agendas.

Denial is futile you will be assimilated....LOL....!!!!!!


everything has a price attached in Your delusional world

Why do you support 1.9 trillion dollars of tax payers money subsidising the fossil fuel sectors world wide each year?
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« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:22pm by Chimp_Logic »  

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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #97 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:38pm
 
Ajax wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:45am:
...
The club of rome are the high priests of anthropogenic global warming, for forty years they have been working to pass carbon pricing on a global scale.
...
Of course, of course. It's all a conspiracy; aaaall a conspiracy.  Roll Eyes
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miketrees
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #98 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 4:40pm
 
If windmills controlled birds I would replant my orchard and build windmills.

Nothing works on birds after about 10 days
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #99 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 6:17pm
 
I remember attending a spill of cyanide in the NT about 10 years ago. There was a puddle at the side of the road and about 120 dead budgerigars. On the way there, the ute struck a flock of budgerigars. I thnk that one trip alone took out 10 of them.
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #100 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 2:25pm
 
Wind Energy Threat to Birds Is Overblown

Posted: 11/22/2013 9:06 am

Wind energy is one of the cleanest, most abundant, sustainable -- and increasingly cost-effective -- ways to generate electricity. It is also one of the fastest growing electricity sources around the globe. In the United States alone, more than 13,000 megawatts of new capacity was installed in 2012, and by the year's end, there were enough wind turbines to power 15 million typical American homes -- without toxic pollutants or carbon emissions.

Still, wind has its detractors. One of the most prominent is Robert Bryce, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a New York City-based, pro-market, anti-government think tank backed by ExxonMobil and Charles Koch, the billionaire co-owner of the coal, oil and gas conglomerate Koch Industries. Over the last few years, Bryce has been bashing wind energy in the pages of the New York Post, Wall Street Journal and other publications, charging that wind turbines are, among other things, ugly, noisy and a threat to public health.

But what really seems to stick in his craw is their purported impact on birds.

Bryce's October 11 Wall Street Journal column is typical, rehashing an argument he made in a September 2009 column in the same newspaper, in the National Review last May, and the Wall Street Journal again last February. Bryce contends that the wind industry kills a "vast" number of birds every year -- especially eagles -- and insists the Obama administration is playing favorites, allowing wind developers to go scot-free while "aggressively" prosecuting the oil and gas industry for the same infraction. He calls it a "pernicious double standard."

But before you let Bryce's charges ruffle your feathers, you should know that they're wildly overblown. Yes, wind turbines unfortunately do kill some birds, including eagles, and the industry needs to address that fact. But how big a threat do they pose compared with other culprits? You wouldn't know by reading Bryce. Nor would you know that, if you compare the damage various energy technologies do to the environment, wildlife, public health and the climate, wind is one of the most benign.

In other words, context is everything, and Bryce doesn't provide it.

The Main Culprits

Given how Bryce portrays the wind industry, one would assume it's one of the nation's top bird killers. In fact, wind turbines are way down in the pecking order.

Besides habitat degradation and destruction, the top human-built environmental threat to our feathered friends are buildings. As many as 970 million birds crash into them annually, according to a June 2013 study in the Wilson Journal of Ornithology. Other studies, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), estimate that every year as many as 175 million birds die by flying into power lines, which electrocute tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands more; 72 million are poisoned by misapplied pesticides; nearly 6.6 million perish by hitting communications towers; and as many as 1 million birds die in oil and gas industry fluid waste pits.

By contrast, a March 2013 study in the Wildlife Society Bulletin estimates that land-based wind turbines killed as many as 573,000 birds in 2012. That's not insignificant, but certainly not the scourge that Bryce implies.

What about the threat wind turbines pose to bald and golden eagles? Turbines certainly are a particular problem for raptors. When they're hunting, they primarily train their eyes on the ground, scanning for prey, and they can be distracted by other raptors encroaching on their territory. Eagles also have limited peripheral vision. All of these factors can spell trouble, especially given the fact that turbine blade tips can spin as fast as 180 miles per hour.

In his October 11 column, Bryce cited a study in the September 2013 issue of the Journal of Raptor Research that found that wind turbines in 10 states killed 85 eagles between 1997 and the end of June 2012 -- 79 golden eagles and six bald eagles. That's an average of less than six a year, but most of the deaths occurred between 2008 and 2012 due to industry growth, and the study's authors were quick to point out that the number of turbine-related eagle deaths is likely much higher. The study didn't include wind industry-related eagle deaths in three other states as well at the 1980s-era Altamont Pass in Northern California, which has been killing an average of 67 eagles a year.

[continued ...]
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #101 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 2:28pm
 
[... continued]

For discussion sake, let's add the 67 eagle deaths a year at Altamont Pass to the 85 the study confirmed. Over a 15-and-a-half-year period, that would amount to 1,124 dead eagles. That sounds like a lot. But how does that compare with overall non-natural eagle deaths?

When an eagle is killed and people find a carcass, FWS asks them to send it to the National Wildlife Property Repository near Denver. About 2,500 show up every year, according to FWS, although certainly more go unreported. Using that number as a benchmark, the number of dead eagles annually from 1997 through June 2012 would amount to approximately 38,750 birds. Based on these admittedly crude estimations, at least 97 percent of the eagle deaths were attributable to causes other than commercial, land-based wind turbines. Often FWS can't determine the exact cause of death, but apparently poachers, transmission lines, pesticides, and lead poisoning from bullet-ridden carrion killed significantly more than turbines.

Same Old Same Old

FWS is currently investigating 18 wind industry-related bird-death cases and has referred seven of them to the Justice Department. Even so, as Bryce constantly complains, the Obama administration has yet to prosecute a wind developer under the two main federal bird protection laws, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) and the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act (Eagle Act). Both the Eagle Act and the MBTA, which covers more than 800 bird species, prohibit anyone from "taking"-- hunting, capturing, selling or killing -- a bird without a permit.

As Bryce acknowledges, however, no previous Justice Department -- not even under the fossil fuel-friendly George W. Bush administration -- ever took a wind developer to court for violating either bird law. Building and communications tower owners also have been spared. Meanwhile, federal prosecution of the oil and gas industry and pesticide applicators goes back to the 1970s, and the government brought its first case against an electric utility for electrocuting birds in 1998. So perhaps there's a better explanation for the way the laws have been applied than what Bryce calls an Obama administration double standard.

The MBTA, which was enacted in 1918, is a strict liability law. That means if you accidentally kill a migratory bird with your car, for example, or a bird slams into your living room picture window, technically you have committed a misdemeanor, despite the fact it was unintentional. But it's impractical to enforce the law that way. The Justice Department will consider legal action only if a violator repeatedly breaks the law and is in a position to take reasonable steps to prevent further harm. Oil and gas companies can easily prevent birds from dying in their waste pits by stretching nets over them. Electric utilities can insulate their transmission poles to prevent electrocutions. But it is much more difficult to remediate skyscrapers or communication towers -- or wind turbines, for that matter -- once they are in place.

Unlike the MBTA, the Eagle Act, which was enacted in 1940, doesn't protect eagles from lawful activities that kill them unintentionally. It only applies to individuals or corporations without a permit that "knowingly, or with wanton disregard for the consequences" take a bald or golden eagle. That makes it much more difficult for the government to prosecute violators than under the MBTA.

Prosecution as a Last Resort

With either law, prosecution is a last resort. FWS -- which has only 230 field agents monitoring wildlife deaths nationwide -- tries to work with violators to fix the problem before it refers a case to the Justice Department.

For example, for decades FWS inspectors have been routinely checking for bird carcasses in oil and gas company liquid waste pits, which kill as many as a million birds annually. When FWS agents discover dead birds, they generally notify the responsible company and give it the opportunity to rectify the problem by installing netting or screening to keep birds from landing on the pits. If the company pays a modest fine--usually $500 and an additional $250 per bird--and corrects the problem, FWS will not file a case with a U.S. Attorney's office. That happens only after repeated violations. And even if a company is ultimately convicted and put on probation, the fine is relatively small.

Bryce actually cited one of these cases involving repeat offenders as evidence that the Obama administration is "aggressively" prosecuting the oil and gas industry, but he left out some key information that would have undermined his argument.

In 2011, FWS filed criminal charges against three companies drilling in North Dakota's Bakken shale formation. "One of those companies, Continental Resources, was indicted for killing a single bird" that died in one of its waste pits, Bryce squawked in the Wall Street Journal in February and again in the National Review in May.

[continued ...]
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #102 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 2:31pm
 
[... continued]

One bird?! Pretty outrageous, no? But Bryce failed to mention that Continental Resources and the two other companies, Brigham Oil & Gas and Newfield Production Co., had been flouting the law -- and killing birds -- for years. The Justice Department merely charged them with violations based on the number of dead birds FWS agents found when they made their last site visit following years of imploring the companies to install nets. No matter, the district court ultimately dismissed the charges, issuing a ruling that squarely conflicts with how the government has traditionally interpreted the MBTA.

Making Turbines More Bird-Friendly

In his zeal to disparage wind power, Bryce also doesn't credit the Obama administration and the wind industry for what they're doing to address the problem. In response to concerns about increasing turbine-related bird deaths, FWS issued new voluntary guidelines in March 2012 for wind developers to minimize harm to birds and their habitats. The guidelines, which cover siting, construction, monitoring and operation, were developed with the help of an advisory committee composed of experts from universities, industry, government agencies and conservation groups, including Defenders of Wildlife and the National Audubon Society. (I should note, however, that some groups, such as the American Bird Conservancy, insist those guidelines should be mandatory.)

Besides collaborating on the FWS guidelines for new wind farms, the industry is working with conservationists, science groups and government agencies to make their currently operating facilities more bird-friendly. For example, a number of leading wind companies and other industry players are partners in the American Wind Wildlife Institute, which the Union of Concerned Scientists helped launch in 2008. The institute's mission is to "facilitate timely and responsible development of wind energy, while protecting wildlife and wildlife habitat." The main point? You can do both.

Other remediation efforts, some admittedly due to lawsuits, also are underway. As a part of a settlement with the California state government and environmental groups, for example, the largest wind power company in the Altamont Pass is replacing thousands of outdated turbines with a lot fewer, taller, more-efficient ones that pose less of a threat to the golden eagles, hawks and other birds that patrol the skies in the area. So far those efforts and other modifications appear to be producing results.

Finally, there's one last critical point that Robert Bryce conveniently ignores: Climate change threatens hundreds of migratory bird species, which are already stressed by habitat loss, invasive species and other environmental threats. A 2010 report by FWS and other federal agencies in collaboration with such conservation groups as the National Audubon Society and American Bird Conservancy found that global warming will have an increasingly devastating effect on migratory birds in all habitats. And earlier this year, the National Wildlife Federation published a similar report that concludes unequivocally that climate change today is the most serious threat facing America's migratory birds.

Regardless, Bryce -- who has called himself an "agnostic" on climate science -- likely will continue to attack renewable energy at every opportunity on behalf of his benefactors. And I'm sure the ideologically driven editors at the Wall Street Journal's opinion section and the National Review will continue to run his columns. But there's no getting around the fact that we have to wean the world off fossil fuels as soon as possible, and one of the answers, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

Elliott Negin is the director of news and commentary at the Union of Concerned Scientists.
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #103 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 3:07pm
 
However bats are different.

'More than 600,000 bats were killed by wind energy turbines in 2012, a serious blow to creatures who pollinate crops and help control flying insects, according to a new study from the University of Colorado Denver.

“The development and expansion of wind energy facilities is a key threat to bat populations in North America,” said study author Mark Hayes, PhD, research associate in integrated biology at CU Denver.  “Dead bats are being found underneath wind turbines across North America. The estimate of bat fatalities is probably conservative.”

The study, which analyzed data on the number of dead bats found at wind turbine sites, will be published next week in the journal BioScience.'

extract: 3w's.ucdenver.edu/about/newsroom/newsreleases/Pages/Study-shows-wind-turbines-ki
lled-600000-bats-last-year.aspx
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Re: Windmills and birds
Reply #104 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 8:30pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 23rd, 2013 at 3:07pm:
However bats are different.
...
Yes lee, I've seen all sorts of figures, many much larger than that. The truth is not likely to be found in whatever denialist blog directed you to that one.

They typically take one figure, adjust to taste, then extrapolate from there.

Quote:
As derived from Bat Conservation International, the key facts are compiled from existing studies by Greg Johnson, Western Ecosystem Technology and BWEC.
  1. Bat fatalities at wind turbines have been documented worldwide including in Australia, Canada, Germany, Spain and Sweden. They have occurred in varying habitats in North America.
  2. Only 12 studies have been conducted in the U.S. concerning bat fatalities at wind farms. Only one refereed journal article on bat mortality at turbines has been published.
  3. Bat fatalities have been reported at nearly all wind energy facilities in the US. Annual mortality is estimated from <2 to nearly 50 bats per turbine per year.
  4. Bat fatalities appear to be highest in or near forests and along ridge tops. Fatalities appear to be moderate in open areas close to forests in the Midwest, and lowest in open grassland or farmland away from forests.
  5. No detailed studies of the relationship between bat communities and wind turbines in Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona or New Mexico have been conducted. Large bat populations occur in these areas, including migratory free-tailed bats.
  6. Hoary, red and silver-haired bats are most commonly killed
  7. Bats rarely strike meteorological towers or non-operating wind turbines
  8. Peaks in bird and bat kills do not appear to overlap, with bats preceding birds in fall migration.
  9. No endangered species of bats have been found or reported killed at a wind farm in the continental United States.
So yes, as with all human activities, there are impacts. Amateurs like you and I are not qualified to judge their significance.

There have been other studies but, the last I heard, none had passed peer review.

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