Australian Politics Forum - Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs

Ajax

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #15 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:17am

# wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 6:56pm:

Ajax wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 1:10pm:

# wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 12:57pm:

Ajax wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 12:30pm:

muso wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 12:23pm:

Ajax wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 11:44am:

It's a real shame on you hatch that you come on here with one alarmist paper claiming doom and gloom to prove the alarmist cause right and trying to deceive the unsuspecting reader that might come on this forum once or twice to get some idea of the anthropogenic global warming situation.

Yes, you're unpsetting Ajax's religious sensibilities. Please desist from these factual reports. All hail Lord Monckton. (sorry - I mean "You know who")

Er Ajax - aren't you conflating sea ice with temperature? Aren't you forgetting about equilibrium?

Ha as usual you have no defence and just mince words....!!!!

No, Ajax, muso raised cogent points which you failed to address. You're looking like an ignorant loser.

Care to explain it......!!!

Cause its just babble to me.....????

No, Ajax. I'm not about to let you lure me down that rabbit-hole. If you truly don't understand (which I doubt), then you've confirmed the appearance to which I alluded.

First you have to take another pill.....!!!!!!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #16 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:37am

Ajax,

Reflect on this:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-free-arctic-in-pliocene-las...

Quote:

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

Scientists trying to determine how the Earth might change as temperatures rise often look back in time to a period around 3.6 million years ago called the middle Pliocene, when concentrations of carbon dioxide ranged from about 380 to 450 parts per million. (Today they are nearing 400.)

A study published yesterday in the journal Science analyzed the longest land-based sediment core ever taken in the Arctic and found that during this period, from 3.6 million to 2.2 million years ago, the area around the North Pole was much warmer and wetter than it is now.

In the middle Pliocene, summer temperatures in the Arctic were around 60 degrees Fahrenheit, which is about 14 degrees warmer than they are now, the study found.

The sediment core came from the bottom of a deep lake in Russia about 60 miles north of the Arctic Circle, called Lake El'gygytgyn.

Why isn't it ice free today? Well one of the factors is that it's not at equilibrium.

How can I explain this in simple terms that you will understand?

Ice - He dead man walking.

Is it possible to get ice in a cup of boiling water? Yes. It takes a certain finite time to melt. The ice in the hot water has not yet reached equilibrium.

Now, what we know about the early Holocene is that sea levels rose because of certain discrete events. One of the things that happened during the melt was that a huge lake (Lake Agassiz) burst through the ice and raised sea levels very quickly.

The article in the OP is about "Arctic Summer Temperatures", not sea ice.

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Ajax

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #17 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:57am

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Ajax,

Reflect on this:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-free-arctic-in-pliocene-las...

Quote:

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

Scientists trying to determine how the Earth might change as temperatures rise often look back in time to a period around 3.6 million years ago called the middle Pliocene, when concentrations of carbon dioxide ranged from about 380 to 450 parts per million. (Today they are nearing 400.)

A study published yesterday in the journal Science analyzed the longest land-based sediment core ever taken in the Arctic and found that during this period, from 3.6 million to 2.2 million years ago, the area around the North Pole was much warmer and wetter than it is now.

In the middle Pliocene, summer temperatures in the Arctic were around 60 degrees Fahrenheit, which is about 14 degrees warmer than they are now, the study found.

The sediment core came from the bottom of a deep lake in Russia about 60 miles north of the Arctic Circle, called Lake El'gygytgyn.

Why isn't it ice free today? Well one of the factors is that it's not at equilibrium.

How can I explain this in simple terms that you will understand?

Ice - He dead man walking.

Is it possible to get ice in a cup of boiling water? Yes. It takes a certain finite time to melt. The ice in the hot water has not yet reached equilibrium.

Now, what we know about the early Holocene is that sea levels rose because of certain discrete events. One of the things that happened during the melt was that a huge lake (Lake Agassiz) burst through the ice and raised sea levels very quickly.

The article in the OP is about "Arctic Summer Temperatures", not sea ice.

First of all that was interesting read with interesting findings.

What spoils it is the last sentence where she say that CO2 is causing todays warming.

Her project wasn't about CO2 and its impact today.

So how can she just slip in a comment like that, is she qualified to do so.

She really discredits her self when she has done such great work and then insinuates something else completely unrelated to her work.

Can we have ice in boiling water..???

Yes we can if we are trying to melt a block of ice in a container with a heat source.

Whether the arctic is in equilibrium or not I don't think either side can claim to know 100%.

What is certain though and I think both sides would agree on this is that we are coming out of a mini ice age since about the 1700 to 1800 hundred, I cant remember exactly.

Its only reasonable to expect temperature to rise and sea ice to melt its all part of the natural cycle of the peaks and troughs the Earth experiences.

Add to this our sun being very active over the last century and what we have today is no cause for alarm imo.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs Reply #18 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 7:18pm Lol, i hereby refer to Ajax as METHOD-MAN wooooooooohooooo
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#

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #19 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 7:56pm

Ajax wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

...
What spoils it is the last sentence where she say that CO2 is causing todays warming.

Her project wasn't about CO2 and its impact today.

So how can she just slip in a comment like that, is she qualified to do so.

She really discredits her self when she has done such great work and then insinuates something else completely unrelated to her work.

Can we have ice in boiling water..???

Yes we can if we are trying to melt a block of ice in a container with a heat source.

Whether the arctic is in equilibrium or not I don't think either side can claim to know 100%.

What is certain though and I think both sides would agree on this is that we are coming out of a mini ice age since about the 1700 to 1800 hundred, I cant remember exactly.

Its only reasonable to expect temperature to rise and sea ice to melt its all part of the natural cycle of the peaks and troughs the Earth experiences.

Add to this our sun being very active over the last century and what we have today is no cause for alarm imo.

Ajax, stop trying to sound like you understand what you clearly don't. You're embarrassing yourself.

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muso

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #20 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 8:27pm

Ajax wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

What spoils it is the last sentence where she say that CO2 is causing todays warming.

Her project wasn't about CO2 and its impact today.

So how can she just slip in a comment like that, is she qualified to do so.

I'm pretty sure that if she's a research scientist, she completed High School (etc) and is therefore qualified to say something so basic. Roll Eyes

You guys are endangered species. All major political parties distance themselves from you.

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muso

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #21 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 8:32pm

Ajax wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

Its only reasonable to expect temperature to rise and sea ice to melt its all part of the natural cycle of the peaks and troughs the Earth experiences.

It's reasonable to expect that death is quite a natural part of the cycle of life too, but if there are obvious abnormal causes that show that it isn't natural, then the police will get involved with their scientific forensic unit.

Ajax - what you just said amounts to reductionism.

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namnugenot

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #22 - Nov 7^th, 2013 at 10:37pm

So to rewind (so possibly) it's claimed that it could be the warmest temperatures for 120,000 years...possibly on the way down from the actual peak...so not unprecedented. Also melting ice is exposing plants, PLANTS also apparently a lot of human artifacts is some parts of Europe (considerably less than 120K years old)...
In news just in melting ice has so far not uncovered any coal fired power stations or combustion engines...that's a shame...

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139586 Gender:	Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs Reply #23 - Nov 7^th, 2013 at 10:53pm "Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs" Do you have a picture of that 120,000 year old thermometer?
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muso

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #24 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 8:09am

Hey laughing boy, show me a 1000 year old thermometer for that matter. Denialists love proxy temperature data. Ask Ajax. He'll tell you all about the Medieval Warming. He uses the words of the Lord (Monckton) and reverentially crosses himself and mutters pious statements like "The Hockey Stick is dead" and "No warming since 1998".

So do you want the Medieval Warming, or do you wnt to pretend that temperature proxies don't exist? You can't have it both ways.

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namnugenot

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #25 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:13am

"The past few years have seen many such discoveries in the melting mountains of Norway. In a 2010 interview with Reuters, Piloe noted the uncovering of more than 600 ancient artifacts, including hunting sticks, bows and arrows, and a 3,400-year-old leather shoe."

So not 120,00, not 44,000 and not even 12,000 years ago...but 3,400 as in actual hard evidence of habitation and hunting...because...I don't know...that's where the game was as well as the plants that the animals grazed on.
So the only question that remains are they going to find the other shoe?

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namnugenot

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #26 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:20am

[quote author=muso link=1383366382/24#24 date=1383862185]Hey laughing boy, show me a 1000 year old thermometer for that matter. Denialists love proxy temperature data. Ask Ajax. He'll tell you all about the Medieval Warming. He uses the words of the Lord (Monckton) and reverentially crosses himself and mutters pious statements like "The Hockey Stick is dead" and "No warming since 1998".

As opposed to flawed guesstimations that cherry pick a data set and project it into infinity.

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#

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #27 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:35pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

"Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs"
...
Do you have a picture of that 120,000 year old thermometer?

If you pay attention in school, you might learn enough so you can read the OP. For the hard words, you might need to ask Teacher for help.

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

...
http://www.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Ricky-Gervais-Hysterical-Lau...
...
http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/tennant-crazy-laugh.gif

If you learn enough, you might even be able to use words, instead of relying on pictures.

# wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2013 at 10:30am:

...
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 8:49pm:

...
What a terrible person I am.
...

You have good reasons to despise yourself.

On this board, I've yet to see a post of yours that doesn't give evidence of that.

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#

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #28 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:38pm

muso wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 8:09am:

Hey laughing boy, show me a 1000 year old thermometer for that matter. Denialists love proxy temperature data. Ask Ajax. He'll tell you all about the Medieval Warming. He uses the words of the Lord (Monckton) and reverentially crosses himself and mutters pious statements like "The Hockey Stick is dead" and "No warming since 1998".

So do you want the Medieval Warming, or do you wnt to pretend that temperature proxies don't exist? You can't have it both ways.

As I've said: # wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2013 at 10:30am:

... First and foremost, greggerypeccary is a troll.
...

The post to which you've responded is classic troll: devoid of substance and calculated to provoke. That said, we've both fed the troll's ego by responding.

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#

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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #29 - Nov 8^th, 2013 at 1:03pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:13am:

... actual hard evidence ...

The way I read the OP, the evidence was hard. Then it defrosted.

Seriously, to denialists, "hard evidence" is that which supports their beliefs. Evidence which doesn't support the denialist belief system can, in fact must, be disregarded.

Back to the topic: the subject paper was written by qualified researchers and published in Geophysical Research Letters, a reputable journal, following peer review. Metrics of the journal are:-
H Index: 142
SJR: 2.67
Cites per doc: 3.82

So, namnugenot, what are your qualifications?

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