Australian Politics Forum - When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals

sherri

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #45 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:14pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 3:56pm:

Apology does not need to be glib or arrogantly false.

It can be a sincere expression of sorrow and guilt for past crimes.

This was a heinous crime of genocide against Australian aboriginals.

I agree we can express sorrow for things that happened in the past.
But guilt?
I don't agree with that. Guilt belongs to the guilty.

I think the holocaust was heinous, but I don't feel guilty about it. I don't think young Germans should feel guilty either.
They need to acknowledge it happened and condemn those responsible.
But the guilt isn't theirs.

In a similar way,no one should have to feel guilt about Aborigines and the events of the past, just because of having white ancestry.

Surely it is more important to go on from here, deal with the present day Aborigines who may need help or support.

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Big Dave

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #46 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm

sherri wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 3:56pm:

Apology does not need to be glib or arrogantly false.

It can be a sincere expression of sorrow and guilt for past crimes.

This was a heinous crime of genocide against Australian aboriginals.

I agree we can express sorrow for things that happened in the past.
But guilt?
I don't agree with that. Guilt belongs to the guilty.

I think the holocaust was heinous, but I don't feel guilty about it. I don't think young Germans should feel guilty either.
They need to acknowledge it happened and condemn those responsible.
But the guilt isn't theirs.

In a similar way,no one should have to feel guilt about Aborigines and the events of the past, just because of having white ancestry.

Surely it is more important to go on from here, deal with the present day Aborigines who may need help or support.

I agree Sherri. If man was meant to feel guilty about the past then every country on earth and it's people would be guilty of something. Picking the scabs off history just doesn't help in anyway.

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals Reply #47 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm If you cut off the head the body dies. Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?
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GA

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #48 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 5:55pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

If you cut off the head the body dies.

Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?

Intentional elimination of a race isn't what happened in Tasmania. And if anything it could be argued that it was a chance event. For example, suppose the indigenous Tasmanians were the exact same race as those on the mainland, a similar thing might have happened, but we wouldn't be calling it genocide, and then if it weren't for Tasmania being an island it wouldn't be bothering us at all, anyhow. The facts are that it was never the intention of the British to eliminate native people. But because it did happen without there ever being any intent, it should be taken as a warning that it could even happen again in some other way, at some time in the future. And this time it might be 'gendercide' that happens, but there won't be anyone to protest or even discuss it happening. So it's best not to forget that Australia too is an island.

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« Last Edit: Nov 24^th, 2013 at 7:42pm by GA »

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renegadeviking Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88	Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals Reply #49 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:00pm The US gave the natives reservations to live on with Casinos! Australia should do that.
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Laugh till you cry

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #50 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm

GA wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

If you cut off the head the body dies.

Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?

Intentional elimination of a race isn't what happened in Tasmania. And if anything it could be argued that it was a chance event. For example, suppose the indigenous Tasmanians were the exact same race as those on the mainland, the same thing would have happened, but we wouldn't be calling it genocide, and then if it weren't for Tasmania being an island it wouldn't be bothering us at all, anyhow. The facts are that it was never the intention of the British to eliminate native people. But because it did happen without there ever being any intent, it should be taken as a warning that it could even happen again in some other way, at some time in the future. And this time it might be 'gendercide' that happens, but there won't be anyone to protest or even discuss it happening. So it's best not to forget that Australia too is an island.

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #51 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:27pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

Hundreds of thousands?

Really, dude, I don't know where you got your history lessons because you obviously didn't listen in school.

And just as obviously, have done no research on the subject you're so outraged about.

Who owes the Celts an apology?

Now, moving forward into the 21st century, armed with the knowledge of historical atrocities, isn't it a little early to be demanding apologies?

I see plenty going on at the moment that may require an apology in the future.

Let's not distract ourselves with ancient wounds when we could be doing something now.

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Toughen up, Australia!

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Neferti

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #52 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:30pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

GA wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

If you cut off the head the body dies.

Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?

Intentional elimination of a race isn't what happened in Tasmania. And if anything it could be argued that it was a chance event. For example, suppose the indigenous Tasmanians were the exact same race as those on the mainland, the same thing would have happened, but we wouldn't be calling it genocide, and then if it weren't for Tasmania being an island it wouldn't be bothering us at all, anyhow. The facts are that it was never the intention of the British to eliminate native people. But because it did happen without there ever being any intent, it should be taken as a warning that it could even happen again in some other way, at some time in the future. And this time it might be 'gendercide' that happens, but there won't be anyone to protest or even discuss it happening. So it's best not to forget that Australia too is an island.

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

Got evidence of that? Roll Eyes

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Aussie

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #53 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:35pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:27pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

Hundreds of thousands?

Really, dude, I don't know where you got your history lessons because you obviously didn't listen in school.

And just as obviously, have done no research on the subject you're so outraged about.

Who owes the Celts an apology?

Now, moving forward into the 21st century, armed with the knowledge of historical atrocities, isn't it a little early to be demanding apologies?

I see plenty going on at the moment that may require an apology in the future.

Let's not distract ourselves with ancient wounds when we could be doing something now.

True enough.

But I don't reckon it is out of order for the Poms to acknowledge they had an overwhelming advantage both in armaments, and numbers (if required.)

I do not have the slightest hesitation in stating and acknowledging as fact that the Poms militarily defeated Terra Australis way back then, dating from 1770.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals Reply #54 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:48pm When will the All Blacks apologise to the Wallabies for beating them so frequently?
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GA

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #55 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 7:37pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

GA wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

If you cut off the head the body dies.

Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?

Intentional elimination of a race isn't what happened in Tasmania. And if anything it could be argued that it was a chance event. For example, suppose the indigenous Tasmanians were the exact same race as those on the mainland, the same thing would have happened, but we wouldn't be calling it genocide, and then if it weren't for Tasmania being an island it wouldn't be bothering us at all, anyhow. The facts are that it was never the intention of the British to eliminate native people. But because it did happen without there ever being any intent, it should be taken as a warning that it could even happen again in some other way, at some time in the future. And this time it might be 'gendercide' that happens, but there won't be anyone to protest or even discuss it happening. So it's best not to forget that Australia too is an island.

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

It was the genocide aspect that was relevant. And estimates were that a maximum of fifteen thousand natives were living in Tasmania at the time of colonization by the British. Most of these people died because of their susceptibility (due to their isolation) to introduced diseases.

Wiki:

"According to James Bonwick, the start of the Black War is 1804.[12] The first conflict between colonists and Aboriginals was on 3 May 1804. There were three surviving eyewitness accounts of what happened on that day. It is known that a large group of Aboriginals, possibly numbering 300 or more, came into the vicinity of the British settlement. The official report by Lt Moore, the commanding officer at the time, referred to an ‘attack’ by Aboriginals armed with spears and indicated that two Aboriginals were killed and an unknown number wounded."

And it wasn't the British that were shooting and poisoning the native people of this country, it was Aussie. But it was the British justice system that did manage bring at least some of these murderers to justice. So stop blaming the British for our crimes.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #56 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 8:11pm

GA wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 7:37pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

GA wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

If you cut off the head the body dies.

Perhaps the royal family can be put on trial for failing to protect its subjects from genocide?

Intentional elimination of a race isn't what happened in Tasmania. And if anything it could be argued that it was a chance event. For example, suppose the indigenous Tasmanians were the exact same race as those on the mainland, the same thing would have happened, but we wouldn't be calling it genocide, and then if it weren't for Tasmania being an island it wouldn't be bothering us at all, anyhow. The facts are that it was never the intention of the British to eliminate native people. But because it did happen without there ever being any intent, it should be taken as a warning that it could even happen again in some other way, at some time in the future. And this time it might be 'gendercide' that happens, but there won't be anyone to protest or even discuss it happening. So it's best not to forget that Australia too is an island.

So hundreds of thousands of Australian aboriginal deaths from bullet in the head or club on the head were chance events?

It was the genocide aspect that was relevant. And estimates were that a maximum of fifteen thousand natives were living in Tasmania at the time of colonization by the British. Most of these people died because of their susceptibility (due to their isolation) to introduced diseases.

Wiki:

"According to James Bonwick, the start of the Black War is 1804.[12] The first conflict between colonists and Aboriginals was on 3 May 1804. There were three surviving eyewitness accounts of what happened on that day. It is known that a large group of Aboriginals, possibly numbering 300 or more, came into the vicinity of the British settlement. The official report by Lt Moore, the commanding officer at the time, referred to an ‘attack’ by Aboriginals armed with spears and indicated that two Aboriginals were killed and an unknown number wounded."

And it wasn't the British that were shooting and poisoning the native people of this country, it was Aussie. But it was the British justice system that did manage bring at least some of these murderers to justice. So stop blaming the British for our crimes.

There weren't any Aussies until 1901. Prior to that everyone, including the aboriginals (by conquest) was British.

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Soren

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #57 - Nov 24^th, 2013 at 8:20pm

GA wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2013 at 4:01pm:

Their behavior is similar to any other minority that has been deprived of choices.

You mean 'minorities' given choices - and not knowing what the bugger to do with the new choices and so resorting to ignoring them via grog -which is what grog is for. Blotting out choices.
Blotting it responsibility.
I drink - therefore it's whitey's fault.

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GA

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #58 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 9:01am

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

GA wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2013 at 4:01pm:

Their behavior is similar to any other minority that has been deprived of choices.

You mean 'minorities' given choices - and not knowing what the bugger to do with the new choices and so resorting to ignoring them via grog -which is what grog is for. Blotting out choices.
Blotting it responsibility.
I drink - therefore it's whitey's fault.

Aussie has completely failed to adapt to this country despite being in the majority, yet you expect that a handful of people that have been displaced and corrupted by our cockney convict culture should somehow manage to overcome their problems themselves.

The simple fact is that governments have failed to help because they themselves are a product of the choice of the majority of the people. In other words the people represented by government are the same people responsible for the problem in the first place. Evidence of that is that by handing out money instead of providing real assistance they are in fact exacerbating the problem.

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Soren

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Re: When will UK apologize to Australian aboriginals
Reply #59 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 9:34am

Completely failed to adapt? It's a pretty successful country.
On the other hand, aborigines are said to have been adopted very well for 40 thousand years - and were the most wretched people on earth for all that time.

Anyway, there are plenty of well-integrated Aborigines, living normal, productive lives. So it can be done and without the government.

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