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Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!! (Read 25071 times)

polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #60 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 7:12am

Xaseui wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

We're looking at what is true historically.

Quite right. Say like when people accuse the Prophet of being a "pedophile", typically we need some compelling evidence to support this claim. We all know what pedophilia is - it is a psychological condition, where an adult (usually a man) is primarily sexually attracted to very young girls - usually prepubescent.

The marriage to Aisha doesn't even come close to proving the accusation of pedophilia. She was the only one of his wives that was even close to puberty when he married her. For 25 years he was happily married to a woman much older than him. After that he had 9 other wives that were fully adult. The one wife that was much younger he waited an entire 3 years between marriage and consummation. And we know the purpose of the marriage - for political purposes to boost the succession bid of her father to lead the islamic nation.

In short, this is nothing at all like the behaviour of a sick person who has an uncontrollable lust for small children.

You talk about backing up claims, how about you clown back up the claim that he was a sick perverted man who had an unnatural lust for small children. You can't. Nothing in the known history of his life even remotely suggests that.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!! Reply #61 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 10:20am Xaseui, Brian a Muslim? Got a live one there!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Xaseui

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #62 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:21am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 7:12am:

For 25 years he was happily married to a woman much older than him. After that he had 9 other wives that were fully adult.

Hey Muslim
Who cares how many other women he married and how old they were.
One can be a pedophile if they have lust for young girls AND adult women.

Quote:

For 25 years he was happily married to a woman much older than him.

As a Muslim, you conveniently ignore the fact that Khadija was a RICH and POWERFUL businesswoman.

Quote:

In short, this is nothing at all like the behaviour of a sick person who has an uncontrollable lust for small children.

No one said that a pedophile has to have "uncontrollable lust". Muhammad was a pedophile and you are here defending him so you can get your virgins with large breasts.

Go back to my post and try to refute the points I made.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #63 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:41am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 5:01pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 2:45pm:

Here is the hadith that mentions Aisha's first menses, you claimed wiki islam is not touching that one yet anyone who clicks on the wiki islam link will see they do mention it,what do they say?

I see. Now if you could just provide some proof that this is her first menses...

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 2:45pm:

Does Mo say to all his wives every time they have their menses-This is what allah has ordained for you?

If he's accompanying them on their first Hajj, quite likely.

Its pretty obvious what this is about Baron - Aisha has her heart set on performing the Hajj, but on the way gets her period. This hadith is instructions on what women can and can't do on the hajj when menstruating:

"So do what all the pilgrims do with the exception of the Tawaf (Circumambulation) round the Ka`ba"

There is nothing in this that suggests this was her first menses. This is you clutching at straws as usual.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2013 at 2:45pm:

You have debunked nothing, if you think you have debunked the dolls then try selling your horse manure to the ex muslims

Well you never did have an answer to the fact that there is no mention of her playing with the dolls - which is the only thing mentioned that is prohibited. You were never able to provide any evidence that mere possession of dolls is prohibited for post-pubescent girls.

I recall you were in denial about Mo smacking his slave and demanded evidence, i provided the evidence for that.

Aisha did have her first menses aged 15-16 your own Islamic sources state this-
Quote:

We were at Sarif and i was in menses.

I was a girl of tender age
www.sunnah.com/muslim/15/129

Quote:

We came to Sarif and there i entered in the state of menses.

I was very young and i well remember that
www.sunnah.com/muslim/15/128

Tawaf of the Kaba is a pagan ritual copied by muslims.
Quote:

During the pre islamic period of ignorance, the people used to perform tawaf of the Kaba naked except the hums, the Hums were Quraish (jews) and their offspring.
The hums would give clothes to the men and women who would perform tawf wearing them.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/25/146

Wiki islam mentions the dolls, you ignore the evidence from your own Islamic texts and then pathetically claim there is no evidence, do you think anyone believes your crappola?
www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha_Age_of_Consummation

Mohammad was a pedo , a child molestor ,a prophet pretender- muslims are in denial about this truth.

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #64 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:44am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 7:12am:

He married her at age 6 and you claim this is close to puberty.

Mo was pedo and you have done nothing but clutch at straws trying to refute this fact.

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #65 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Xaseui wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

Go back to my post and try to refute the points I made.

But you made no points. Your failed attempt at making a point amounted to a non-sequitur on top of completely contradicting yourself, sprinkled with a few ad-hominems for good measure.

The only thing you said that was worth responding to was:

Xaseui wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

As I said obviously it doesnt matter what Muslims think of an issue. We're looking at what is true historically.

So what i "true historically"? What are the actual historical facts that we know about?

1. we know The Prophet had 10 marriages all with fully adult women.

2. A single one of his 11 marriages was with a girl who at the time had not reached puberty

3. He waited a whole 3 years between marriage and consummation with this girl.

4. A sahih hadith cites Aisha herself as claiming she had already gone through puberty at a time we know was before the consummation. No other historical source so clearly places her puberty within the relevant timeline of her marriage and consummation.

5. There is not a single historical reference to her having reached puberty after consummation. Not one.

6. We know that the marriage to Aisha was an important political act to secure The Prophet's succession, and put the fledgling islamic nation into the hands of someone the Prophet trusted and had the most confidence in.

In light of the above *KNOWN* facts about The Prophet, how does that stack up against the claim he was a "pedophile"?

Pedophile:

1. "A pedophile is a person 16 years of age or older who is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children who have not begun puberty"

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

2. " a person who has a sexual interest in children"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophile

3. "Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophilia

Is there any evidence that Muhammad was "primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children"? Given that 10 of his 11 wives were fully adult, this strongly suggests that he was "primarily or exclusively" sexually attracted to adult women.

Is there even any evidence that Muhammad was attracted at all to children? Is the act of consummating a marriage a sign of "sexual attraction"? Given that we know marriage was not really 'marriage' in that culture until consummation, and the circumstances around that marriage (for political purposes related to The Prophet's succession), this would seem more a case of 'a sense of duty' rather than the lustful act of a sick man.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #66 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 12:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:41am:

Aisha did have her first menses aged 15-16 your own Islamic sources state this-
Quote:
We were at Sarif and i was in menses.

I was a girl of tender age
www.sunnah.com/muslim/15/129

Quote:
We came to Sarif and there i entered in the state of menses.

I was very young and i well remember that
www.sunnah.com/muslim/15/128

Good grief, and you accuse me of clutching at straws Grin

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:41am:

Wiki islam mentions the dolls, you ignore the evidence from your own Islamic texts

I have already refuted the doll theory. Do keep up Baron.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #67 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 1:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

4. A sahih hadith cites Aisha herself as claiming she had already gone through puberty at a time we know was before the consummation.

5. There is not a single historical reference to her having reached puberty after consummation. Not one.

You are still clutching at straws with that debunked sahih hadith gandalf,it does not even mention what age she supposedly went through puberty.

Quote:

I had seen my parents follwoing Islam since i attained the age of puberty.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/8/124

So what does this sahih hadith say gandalf, are you still trying to say Aisha reached puberty before age 6 when she was married to that pedo false profit?
Quote:

Since the age which i could remember things, i have seen my parents following the Islam delusion.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/39/8

Quote:

I never remembered my parents believing in any other religion than Islam.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/63/131

Are you saying Aisha reached puberty at the age she could remember things ?

She had her first menses on the journey to hajj at Sarif, there are 2 sahih hadith that mention this.

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #68 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:41am:

Good grief, and you accuse me of clutching at straws Grin

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 11:41am:

Wiki islam mentions the dolls, you ignore the evidence from your own Islamic texts

I have already refuted the doll theory. Do keep up Baron.

You have refuted nothing, you are starting to sound like Abu in falsely claiming to have refuted or debunked anything, what # on FD's wiki is that?

Aisha said she was a tender age and very young, are they words muslims use for females who have had their menses?

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #69 - Nov 25^th, 2013 at 8:12pm

Xaseui wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 1:11am:

Brian Ross Quote:

How is this different to any other religious belief? Christians belief the most preposterous things about their religion, Jews theirs', etc., etc. Muslims are no different yet you appear to believe that it is perfectly OK to dismiss their views on any issue about their religion. Roll Eyes

Two wrongs dont make a right. You're assuming I'm a Christian.
You started your post talking about assumptions and look at yourself.

I am? Where? I've made no comment about I believe your religious beliefs may be, so perhaps you'd care to show us some evidence for a change?

Quote:

And who are the primary sources for the historians? And you admit that you are relying on "Islamic scholars or leaders". Mmmm, so who ordinary everyday Muslims rely upon for their informed viewpoints on their religion? Could it be "Historians" or "Islamic scholars or leaders"? You seem to be going in ever decreasing circles... Roll Eyes

So basically your logic is that is person A says "Bukhari and Muslim reported in multiple Sahih hadiths that Aisha was 9 when married to 54 year old prophet",
person B can reply saying "But two terrorists in Afghanistan said she was 20 years old when she married Muhammad".

And you're going to accept the arguments of person B, because all the sources are Muslims? You think person B made a valid response?

What I'm saying is that there are few reliable records available as to what her age was. Their contradictions would led a rational person to think twice about making a condemnation, particularly when one considers that marriages were made for many reasons over the last several thousands of years of human existence and in most tribal societies, love and lust are usually far down the list.

You, OTOH, appear to believe that once something is committed to the page, it becomes well, the "Gospel Truth"(tm)

Quote:

What a charmingly naive belief in the inherent accuracy of historical records. Obviously there can never be any bias or hatreds involved in the writing of history in your view then? Roll Eyes

You are a MUSLIM so you're trying to think up of all excuses.

I am? According to whom? You? You've already displayed your prejudices against Muslims quite openly. Most rational people wouldn't care what the religion of their interlocutor was. I've made no statements about my beliefs or non-beliefs, as the case might be, you've automatically assumed merely because I am critical of your rather narrow-minded declarations that I MUST be a "Muslim". You really are proving my case for me, most wonderfully, you realise? You display your religious intolerance openly, your prejudices and your hatreds. There is a word which many accuse me of being over-fond of, which describes that sort of mindset. I do hope you wear your bigotry with some pride? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Get your Islamic scholars to reject the hadiths and before then, you have no religious authority to doubt the authority of Hadiths.

I have no "Islamic scholars". I don't own people. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Actually, it isn't. Particularly if their primary sources are all the same. You obviously have no idea how (medieval) historians researched their works. Invariably they relied upon hearsay and often legend. Often, they relied also upon each other and merely repeated the hearsay and legend as "facts". Modern historians OTOH rely as much as possible on written records or archaeological evidence. Guess what happens when there are no written records or archaeological evidence? They usually just end up repeating the same stories which medieval historians repeated.

BS that is not relevant for this discussion.

Isn't it? Hey, you're the one who's claiming that he is relying upon Medieval Historians for his "facts", not me. I know and understand the fallibility of historians, ancient, middle-ages and modern.

Quote:

You have to prove that Bukhari and Muslim are unreliable. That is relevant for the discussion. Go ahead.

I don't have to prove a damn thing. You've proved it for me. You've demonstrated why your opinions are based upon prejudice and ignorance, rather than understanding and knowledge.

Let me remind you of a rather apt quotation from E.P.Hartley, which is rather apt to what went on 1400 years ago in Medieval Arabia, “The past is like another country; they do things differently there.”

Attempting to judge Medieval Arabian social mores by modern standards is a pretty pointless occupation. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Why are you so afraid of saying whether you're a Muslim or not? Are you embarrassed of being a Muslim?

I'm not afraid, I merely don't see it's relevance. I don't believe religious persecution should be allowed to go unmarked. Our society was founded on the principle of a "fair go" for all. You're definitely not interested in that. Does that make your views "unAustralian"? Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Xaseui

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #70 - Nov 26^th, 2013 at 11:33am

Allah humma Innee As alooka Dont defend pedophiles and dont be fooled by men who promise their followers big tits in Heaven -- 'ilman naa fee-ow wa Rizq-ow waa See-ow wa Shee-faa amm min Kooll-lee daa-een. &&

Gandalf the Muslim:
Quote:

4. A sahih hadith cites Aisha herself as claiming she had already gone through puberty at a time we know was before the consummation. No other historical source so clearly places her puberty within the relevant timeline of her marriage and consummation.

What hadith? There is none.

I'm short of time so let me just remind all the Muslims again. The REASON why you defend Islam is that:
Your prophet Mr. Muhammad said that if you were good and obeyed him, he would gift you with women with BIG TITS.

You think I'm making this up?

Quran 78:33 -

And full-breasted [companions] of equal age

(Sahih International)

And voluptuous women of equal age;
(Yusuf Ali)

There you go. You like big tits, right? We all do.
Bad news though. Muhammad was making a false promise while pretending to be a prophet of God.

Leave Islam and come out of it. Now.

Respond to Gandalf:
Quote:

primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children

Pedophilia doesnt mean someone has an EXCLUSIVE interest in only pre-pubescent girls:
Quote:

For example, The American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary states, "Pedophilia is the act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children."

Also:
webmd DOT com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia
says:
Are pedophiles only attracted to children?
Quote:

Some pedophiles may be as attracted to adults as they are to children, but it's hard to know how common that is. That's because most pedophilia research is based on people who were arrested for sexual offenses against children, and they may tend to exaggerate their sexual interest in adults to seem more "normal," Blanchard says.

So stop saying that pedophiles are only interested in pre-puibsceent children.

Your Big-Titty-promising prophet was a pedophile.

Please try to accept that.
Did you try to skip over the text in red here? Don't you dare.

At least you admit that Mo-Ham-mie married Aisha at a time she had not reached puberty so thank you for that.

Brian Ross
Quote:

What I'm saying is that there are few reliable records available as to what her age was.

So you think multiple Sahih hadiths are not considered as reliable.
You should have read Quran and hadiths before converting to Islam. Look what you are doing now. You're defending a pedophile who pretended he was the last prophet of god.
Lets talk about Quran 5:38 which asks Muslims to cut off hands of a thief. You accept the Quran. Also the wife beating verse in Quran 4:34. Go ahead make excuses for your pedophile hero's Arabic Comic book.
Too bad you wrote 50 lines of nonsense but were still afraid to say that you are indeed a Muslim. You are ashamed of being one. You know what you get in heaven? A--- cups. That is the smallest cup size.
You want the D cups promised to you in Surah 78:33? Start by being courageous enough to state openly what your beliefs are.

« Last Edit: Nov 26^th, 2013 at 11:52am by Xaseui »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #71 - Nov 26^th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Xaseui wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

What hadith? There is none.

Quote:

Narrated `Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet () visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abu Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Qur'an. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Qur'an).

- Abu Bakr accepted Islam
- Abu Bakr built a mosque in the courtyard of his house
- The Prophet visited Aisha every day at her parents house

- *ALL* these events happened before the hijra, that is not disputed.

- Muhammad's marriage was consummated in Medina - after the hijra, that is not disputed.

The hadith *CLEARLY* places the time of her puberty well before her consummation with Muhammad.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Xaseui

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #72 - Nov 26^th, 2013 at 2:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

Baron has responded to that. The hadith does not mention the age.
Why havent you responded to him saying:
Quote:

She had her first menses on the journey to hajj at Sarif, there are 2 sahih hadith that mention this.

?

So many ways to respond to what you said. Let me use the same excuses YOU guys use. Lets start by saying that I bet that hadith is weak.

What is the exact reference for that hadith? Why havent you given a hadith number and so on?
This is most likely a doctored fake hadith - Muslims love to LIE for their religion so they can get those women with big tits. The usage of the word "soft hearted" is highly suspicious.
"pagans became afraid of that" - just seems like a modern creation by some Tom Dick and Harry, not a historic hadith by a scholar who can compare to Bukhari and Muslim.
They never use language like that.

And another argument is that you cannot use Hadith to defend Islam since many Muslims like Brian Ross reject hadiths in their entirety.
Beggars cannot be choosers.

That hadith also contradicts the doll playing hadith.

In the end, you are saying that a 9 year old girl reached puberty. You know the chances of that happening are slim, right?
A 54 year old man smacking a 9 year old little girl? You think that looks GOOD for Islam?
Like I said, so many ways to respond to that.

Continued on next post.

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #73 - Nov 26^th, 2013 at 2:45pm

This response is from a Forum, and is a response to the hadith you quoted
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

A Muslim has pointed out that one particular translation of a sahih Bukhari hadith may be interpreted to show that Aisha had already reached puberty during her initial period of living in Mecca prior to the Hijrah.

Muhsin Khan’s translation of Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 465:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran)."

There are at least three “errors” with this interpretation of this particular translation of the hadith.

1. It is contradicted by other sahih Bukhari hadiths of the same incident that suggest Aisha only remembered her parents following Islam as far as she remembered or that she did not remember her parents believing in any religion other than Islam. By all accounts Aisha was born after her parents accepted Islam and it is erroneous to think she could only remember her parents following Islam after she reached the age of puberty. These hadiths are as follows:

Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 37, Number 494:
Narrated Aisha: (wife of the Prophet) Since I reached the age when I could remember things, I have seen my parents worshipping according to the right faith of Islam. Not a single day passed but Allah's Apostle visited us both in the morning and in the evening…

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 245:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah's Apostle in the morning and in the evening…

Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 102:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) "I do not remember my parents believing in any religion other than the Religion (of Islam), and our being visited by Allah's Apostle in the morning and in the evening. One day, while we were sitting in the house of Abu Bakr (my father) at noon, someone said, 'This is Allah's Apostle coming at an hour at which he never used to visit us.' Abu Bakr said, 'There must be something very urgent that has brought him at this hour.' The Prophet said, 'I have been allowed to go out (of Mecca) to migrate.' "

Hence, using Muhsin Khan’s translation of 1;8;465 to show Aisha had reached puberty before she migrated to Medinah is doubtful since this conclusion would be inconsistent with other hadiths of the same event. These hadiths show Aisha remembered her parents following Islam not since she reached puberty but as far as she could remember, and it is implausible to believe she only began her recollections upon reaching puberty.

2. This raises the question of the veracity and reliability of Muhsin Khan’s translation of 1;8;465. A search of other translations of this particular hadith shows no mention of Aisha’s puberty at all. In fact, it is likely that Muhsin Khan translation of 1;8;465 is erroneous. Here is another translation of the said hadith:

Chapter 11: Mosque
LII: A mosque should not be built in a thoroughfare if that would be detrimental to people
Al-Hasan, Ayyub and Malik all said this.

464 It is related that 'A'isha, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I have no recollection of my parents doing anything but following the deen of Islam. No day would pass without the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, visiting us at either end of it, both morning and evening. Then it occurred to Abu Bakr to build a mosque in the forecourt of his house. He used to pray and recite Qur'an in it. The pagan women and children would stand there amazed, staring at him. Abu Bakr was a man who wept easily and could not control his tears when reading the Qur'an and this was a matter of great concern to those nobles of Quraysh who worshipped idols." sunnipath DOT com/Resources/PrintMedia/Hadith/H0002P0011.aspx

Hence, 1;8;465 is entirely consistent with other like hadiths in that Aisha did not remember her parents following any religion other than Islam, and not since she reached puberty. One suggests Muhsin Khan's translation is erroneous and that the original meaning does not convey the idea of Aisha having reached puberty during the events mentioned in the hadith. {Note the numbering is less one compared to Muhsin Khan’s translation. However, a check of the preceding and subsequent hadiths shows that the sunnipath hadith is identical to Muhsin Khan’s hadith}.

continued ...

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Xaseui

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Re: Evidence gone missing - PLEASE HELP!!
Reply #74 - Nov 26^th, 2013 at 2:48pm

Rest of the post:
Dont whine that these source was an anti-Islamic website or poster on the forum. We're all anti-Islamic and those websites are also anti-Islamic, so you have to look at the argument.
Your argument is therefore BUSTED.
And again in any case you're saying that its OK for a 54 year old man to bugger a 9 year old little girl.

Quote:

3. Other sahih hadiths suggest that Aisha was a young girl or little girl who was of an immature age, and thus would contradict any interpretation of the Muhsin Khan translation of 1;8;465 to mean Aisha had reached puberty whilst she was still residing in Mecca. These hadiths include Bukhari 3;48;805 , 3;48;829 , Bukhari 6; 60; 274 , Bukhari 7;62;163 , and Muslim 037; 6673 and show that Aisha had not attained puberty even at the time of the raid on the Bani al-Mustaliq, traditionally ascribed to have occurred between 4 to 6 AH. { Ibn Sa'd in his Tabaqat – Sha’ban 5 AH; Musa bin 'Uqbah – 4 AH; Ibn Ishaq - Sha'ban 6AH
islamicperspectives DOT com/Chastity.htm. Other datings of the Mustaliq raid anwary-islam DOT com/prophet-life/holly-p-10.htm , al-islamforallDOT org/Ghazwat/ghazwat/mustaliq.htm }

Conclusion
There is no evidence that Aisha had reached puberty before the migration to Medinah, except for a Muhsin Khan translation (only with a favorable interpretation) that is clearly at odds with other hadiths of the same event, another translation of the same hadith, and other hadiths that clearly suggest that she had not reached puberty at least 4 years after the migration and hence at least 2 to 3 years after Muhammad had had sex with her (see Abdul Walid bin Muhammad Talib’s article proving Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was nine years old

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