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Harassement of Muslims in Australia (Read 33821 times)
Brian Ross
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Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:32pm
 
Quote:
Racism, prejudice and discrimination

Andrew  Markus  (2001)  has  charted  the  continuing  role  of  racism  in  Australia.  While  Islam  is  a
religion,  and  Muslims  form  a  religious  community,  the  concept  of  racism  is  often  used  to
encompass  the  structuring  of  prejudice  towards  Muslims.  However,  for  some  in  the  Muslim
communities  it  is  doubtful  that  racial  vilification  laws  and  protections  are  likely  to  provide
adequate protection from discrimination and vilification on the basis of religious belief, affiliation
or  practice.  Some  young  people  experience  ‘prejudice’  as  ‘racism’,  and  sometimes  it  may  be
difficult to differentiate what is racism, and what is religious prejudice. Racism as such has been
used as a surrogate category for prejudice based on ‘religious’ identification and practice, even
though  it  does  not  account  for  all  the  different  forms  of  discrimination  and  vilification
experienced. 

Young Muslim Australians can detail the sense of exclusion, the harassment and the vilification
they have experienced. We know from the quantitative survey that discrimination and prejudice
was experienced by a large number of young Muslims Australians within the school setting and
by Muslim youth of all ages in public areas such as streets, shopping centres and similar places.
Indeed  two  thirds  of  young  people  surveyed  reported  experiencing  discrimination  within  the
public sphere at least one or more occasions.
They know about discrimination in the labour market, where Muslim names close off avenues to
employers. A stakeholder reports:
Quote:
....  The  amount  of  times  we’ve  made  phone  calls  for  apprentice  applications  or  job
applications: ‘Oh, what’s the young person’s name?’ ‘Mohammad, Hassan whatever’. ‘Oh
no sorry, we’re full’. Five minutes later, my colleague would ring with a very accentuated
Australian like, ‘Oh yeah, ringin’ up, oh yeah’. You know, when it’s Michael, ‘Oh yes, sure,
we’ll  send  you  the  application  in  the  mail’.  You  know,  that  stuff  happens.  Interjection:
That’s a very typical story every day.


One man talked about how prejudice had affected him as he was growing up and the effects he
sees now on his Australian born children. He thinks that Muslim young people need to develop
an  attitude  where  they  are  able  to  speak  for  themselves  and  defend  themselves  against  such
attacks.  Of  course  this  raises  the  very  important  issue  of  intergenerational  experiences  of
discrimination.

Quote:
... I accept other people’s religion and culture. It’s the same. And I do believe that I project
my views and my beliefs onto that. So it is give and take. And I’ve been through lots of ‐
you know ‐ racism or lots of people have criticized me ‐ and lots of stuff ‐ where I come
from. Still my kids who don’t even have the Lebanese nationality and they look at them –
‘you’re an *** Lebo’. And then they have to deal with that. But the thing is my reaction.
How my reaction is going to be. Am I going to retaliate so bad? What I’m getting at is ‐
we have to look maybe for ways to get into these people’s ‐ young people’s mind ‐ that
you have a right to stand up for yourself and say ‘No, I’m not accepting this’. But there’s
ways to deal with it....


Young  Muslim  Australians  noticed  a  shift  in  the  public  perception  of  Muslims  since  9/11,  the
Gang Rapes and political debate over the wearing of the hijab and the burqa (Poynting et al 2004;
Poynting  2006).  In  addition  to  the  hijab,  other  areas  identified  in  the  survey  that  were  seen  as
contributing  to  misunderstandings  between  Muslims  and  non‐Muslims  included:  the  issue  of
‘terrorism’,  the  Cronulla  riots;  and  the  media  (traditional  media,  TV,  radio,  newspapers)  and
Internet information (Internet news sites, Internet forums etc) about Muslims and Islam. Almost
a  quarter  of  young  Muslim  Australian  women  surveyed  regarded  the  scarf  or  hijab  to  be
misunderstood  within  society.  Some  young  women  reported  having  been  verbally  or  physically
assaulted  because  of  their  wearing  of  the  hijab.  For  some  this  discrimination  was  regularly
endured and in public places. The response of some young women to such instances of ‘everyday
racism’ is to refrain from defending themselves because they would come out of any conflict as
‘the terrorist’ or the ‘typical Muslim’. Some respond with a smile and walk away determined to
keep  going,  for  others  such  experiences  can  be  humiliating  and  deeply  hurtful.  One  young
woman speaks about how fortunate she is living in Australia in spite of experiencing racism. She
explains:

[cont'd]
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:51pm by Brian Ross »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #1 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:37pm
 
Quote:
Quote:
... For example, I’m playing Oztag with friends as a sport, with a bunch of girls in a team.
But I read a couple of days ago in the media that FIFA had banned the Iranian women’s
soccer team because a girl had been strangled by her scarf. But then we had a sports boss
in Australia coming out and saying that this wouldn’t happen in Australia because that’s
discrimination. Look, you know this could happen to anyone and it’s not the fault of the
religion. So I feel pretty lucky living in Australia and the fact that people here are so open
minded and they accept different religions. There is racism here, and I have experienced
it, but no, I don’t think that it’s stopped me from doing anything.

For some, the level of racism appeared to be tolerable, to be managed by careful use of public
space, and staying close to friends. When asked to explain what sort of racism a young woman
had experienced, she recalls an incident where:
Quote:
We  were  just  walking  in  the  street  and  someone  looked  at  us  as  if  they  were  going  to
poison us with their faces.  One time someone came up to us and told us to go back to our
country. I was like ‐ hold on –‘ I was born here, I’ve been here all my life’, then they react
with, ‘my God, they can speak English’ ‐ do you know what I mean? They don’t have that
expectation of you. So I gave them a funny look and they walked away.... Yes, they were
racists.

The quantitative research revealed that public schools are sites for higher levels of discrimination
than  are  Muslim  schools.  In  consultations  what  was  perceived  as  institutional  prejudice  was
regarded as contributing to the sense of systemic discrimination. One factor mentioned was the
local government denial of planning approval for Muslim schools and mosques. 
Quote:
We are here to stay and that’s the reality that some people don’t want to face. When we
want to build new schools in NSW, the people out there all get angry and react to Islam.
But  they  don’t  do  the  same  to  Christian  schools.  This  shows  that  the  people  are
discriminating against our religion, not because they know anything about it, but because
they are prejudiced against things that they don’t like.

Relations  with  police  and  the  justice  system  produced  the  sharpest  comments  on  perceived
racism.  Community  workers  expressed  a  need  for  more  work  with  police  liaison  officers  and
cross‐cultural training. In the Sydney consultations, a local young woman told of her experience
of  feeling  targeted  during  a  police  outreach  session  in  school.  As  a  person  of  ‘Middle  Eastern
background’, police profiling had left her feeling devastated stating:
Quote:
‘I was an innocent Year 12 girl, and there I was being told that I was a criminal already.
Now that is always in the back of my head’. 

Some of the refugee young people consulted felt distrustful of the police, due to bad experiences
with law enforcement authority in their home countries and their experiences in Australia. One
young stakeholder mentioned the resentment of some young African refugee men living in public
housing  estates  in  Melbourne,  towards  the  police.  These  young  men  felt  harassed  because  of
their  colour,  put  under  continuing  surveillance,  and  picked  on  in  public  places.  A  stakeholder
explains  that  their  visibility  in  public  places  is  attributable  to  a  lack  of  social  amenity  for  these
refugee men who have nowhere to go in the evening. Some of this dynamic has been broadcast
in  a  2008  SBS  TV  documentary  “Community  Cop”,  directed  by  Helen  Gaynor,  which  follows  a
group of young African Muslim men interacting with the police. In a related case Ahmed Dini, a
Somali  man  from  that  estate  who  was  assaulted  by  police,  received  $70,000  compensation  in
2010; he was one of 13 African Muslim complainants against Victorian Police in 2006 for police
brutality  and  harassment.  These  experiences  soon  enter  the  cultural  consciousness  of
communities that experience them, and continue to effect longer‐term attitudes and perceptions
of racism. Being picked up for ‘loitering’ outside your home, sitting on the footpath curb, playing
basketball  at  night  and  being  strip  searched  for  a  minor  issue,  were  reported.  The  young
stakeholder reports:
Quote:
...Yeah, and it’s ridiculous. How can you loiter in front of your flat? Like, it’s my flat, I don’t
have a backyard (laughs). I can loiter in front of it if I want to – but no, it’s government
property and you’re loitering. You’re at the basketball court at twelve o’clock at night. It’s
the basketball court – ‘why are you there?’ You know, ‘what are you kids getting up to?
Are you dealing drugs?’ .... They don’t have a right to search your bag without a reason
and that’s the end. They don’t have a right to come and do that to you. Even though you
reacted in a way to make sure the situation did not blow out of proportion, but, we live in
Australia  and  we  have  rights  in  this  country  and  therefore  we  should  be  able  to  access
[them].


[cont'd]
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #2 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:44pm
 
Quote:
One issue that has arisen in cities like Darwin where there are both Indigenous people and newly
arrived African refugees is the irregular incidence of violence between local Indigenous youth and
migrants of African background. Darwin Somali community leaders and young people, and local
community  workers,  have  expressed  concern  about  such  events.  Some  stakeholders  have
described  the  situation  as  local  youth  feeling  threatened  by  the  appearance  of  a  new  ‘Black’
(rather than Muslim) group in their locality, and some street clashes have occurred.  Even so a
local Muslim youth notes:
Quote:
Darwin is one of the most multicultural places in Australia. And you grow up in preschool,
going  up  to  high  school  and  it’s  not  just  one  race.  There’s  five,  six,  seven,  eight  in  one
class. And that’s what makes it so easy because everyone else has that awkwardness at
the start when  they’re a  different colour or a  different race or  ethnicity or religion, and
you feel kind of awkward in a way, but everyone else is in a way. But then you adapt and
that’s  what  makes  Australia  what  it  is.  Being  able  to  adapt  and  making  it  easier  ‐  and
Australia  being  so  accommodating.  Letting  in  people  who  have  come  from  war  and
hardship, and just saying how they’ve adapted and made it easy to blend into Australia.


[Source]

So, do Muslims deserve to be treated with the same respect that other non-Muslim Australians appear to receive automatically?  I'm talking about the ordinary, every-day, moderate Muslims who try and be a part of Australian society, not the extremists, the Islamists or Takfari Muslims who don't.

Does the bigotry displayed by the likes of Soren and Yadda, which fails to differentiate contribute to the alienation of Muslims in Australian society?   Are they creating a self-fulfilling prophecy?
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:50pm by Brian Ross »  

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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #3 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:41pm
 
Muslims, like everyone else, must take responsibility for their reputation.

You ring for a job with a French or German or Spanish name and they will give you a hearing. If they are suspicious of a Mohammed, it is because every time something is blown up, it's more likely than not that a Mohammed is involved, either as a perpetrator or a victim, often both.

Racial or religious prejudice is like climate science - it is based on statistical averages.  You wouldn't rubbish climate science just because it i based on averages and stats, would you?






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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:47pm by Soren »  
 
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #4 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:45pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:41pm:
Muslims, like everyone else, must take responsibility for their reputation.



Applying that logic then, the rest of Australian society must be in deep pooh if we consider you, Soren.   Roll Eyes

However, I'll step up to the plate.  I'll take responsibility for you.  Where do you live?  I will personally take you in for re-education and moral re-orientation.  Perhaps we can soon release you, a reformed person?
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #5 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:49pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

So, do Muslims deserve to be treated with the same respect that other non-Muslim Australians appear to receive automatically?
 



No.

A moslem does not deserve to be treated with the same respect as another non-moslem Australian.

He is a moslem.




He is a member of a DEATH CULT.

The societal values which the moslem embraces as his 'religious' right - THE BELIEF THAT HE HAS A RELIGIOUS RIGHT, TO VISIT VIOLENCE UPON THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE AS HE BELIEVES - are incompatible with Australian values.

And who in their right mind would want to employ a person who openly declares, that they are a member of a DEATH CULT ?




DEATH CULT



Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.



"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




IMAGE...
...
Sydney CBD, 2012, members of the moslem DEATH CULT,
demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Members of the moslem DEATH CULT, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Members of the moslem DEATH CULT, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems], because they 'offend' and 'insult' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.
i


+++


THE SOCIETAL TENETS WHICH ISLAM AND ISLAM'S FOUNDATION TEXTS JUSTIFY;

"If anyone doesn't like ISLAM, enslave them. If they refuse to be enslaved, KILL THEM!"



"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111i


Quote:

I'm talking about the ordinary, every-day, moderate Muslims who try and be a part of Australian society, not the extremists, the Islamists or Takfari Muslims who don't.



There is no such thing as a 'moderate' moslem.

Why so ?

Because there is no such thing as 'moderate' ISLAM.


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

If moslems were 'moderate' moslems, THEY WOULD NOT BE MOSLEMS.

The 'moderate' moslem, is a persons who is pretending, to the non-moslem, that he [the moslem] is not a 'real' moslem.

When clearly, he [the moslem] is declaring that he is a moslem.

Who is a moslem ?




THE [RELIGIOUS 'LEGITIMISATION' OF VIOLENCE AGAINST NON-MOSLEMS] IS WHAT ISLAM TRIES TO INCULCATE INTO THE MINDS, OF ALL MOSLEMS;

And that 'normalisation' of the 'lawful' [moslem] societal violence against those who are not moslems, is what repulses people, about moslems and ISLAM.

Then when normal people react to this moslem outrage, to this 'normalisation' of the 'lawful' [moslem] societal violence against those who are not moslems, moslems project the blame for the backlash against moslems and the moslem community.

Moslems refuse to accept any moral accountability for their own behaviour.

And why so ?

BECAUSE [in their own mind] THEY [MOSLEMS], ARE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE,
.....AND ALL THE FAULT [in the conflicts which moslems have with other peoples] LIES WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS.




WATCH THESE THREE YOUTUBE VIDEOS;


#1,
Mohamed Morsi-

"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg



#2,
Please watch this YT...         goto 4m 30s, alternatively, watch this YT through from the beginning.
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0



#3,
Please watch this YT...
ISLAM - THREE THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OzxiHfWvBGwi
Quote:

Does the bigotry displayed by the likes of Soren and Yadda, which fails to differentiate contribute to the alienation of Muslims in Australian society?   Are they creating a self-fulfilling prophecy?



By their own choice [the choice of the moslem, within a liberal and free society, to choose to be the member of a death cult], moslems are choosing to alienation themselves from Australian society.

.......BUT MOSLEMS ARE PROJECTING THE BLAME FOR THE FEELINGS OF REVULSION, WHICH MANY AUSTRALIANS HAVE FOR ISLAM, AND THE FEELINGS OF REVULSION, WHICH MANY AUSTRALIANS HAVE, FOR THE 'LEGITIMISING' OF THE RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE, WHICH ISLAM PROMOTES AND ENCOURAGES, TOWARDS THOSE PERSONS WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS.



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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:03pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:00pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

Muslims, like everyone else, must take responsibility for their reputation.


You ring for a job with a French or German or Spanish name and they will give you a hearing. If they are suspicious of a Mohammed, it is because every time something is blown up, it's more likely than not that a Mohammed is involved, either as a perpetrator or a victim, often both.

Racial or religious prejudice is like climate science - it is based on statistical averages.  You wouldn't rubbish climate science just because it i based on averages and stats, would you?




Exactly so, Soren.

The doctrines of ISLAM create 'an environment of conflict' between moslems, and those who are not moslems - wherever moslems and non-moslems may congregate together.

Moslems foster [within their own communities] an attitude of hatred and hostility towards all those who are not moslems.

But moslems then [hypocritically], project all of the blame for the friction of these conflicts [in society] with moslems, upon those who are not moslems.







+++



Moslems are the ones, who are at war, with all of mankind;



Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"







"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:03pm
 
Yadda wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:49pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

So, do Muslims deserve to be treated with the same respect that other non-Muslim Australians appear to receive automatically?
 



No.

A moslem does not deserve to be treated with the same respect as another non-moslem Australian.

He is a moslem.


Thank you, Yadda for demonstrating your bigotry for us so well and within so few lines in your opening post in the thread.  Well done!

You're honest, I will admit, you openly wear your bigotry on your sleeve, for all to see.

However, the question arises, do you understand why you're going against your own claimed religious beliefs on so many levels?  Therefore, why should we accept anything that such a hypocrite posts as being of any value?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:41pm:
Muslims, like everyone else, must take responsibility for their reputation.



Applying that logic then, the rest of Australian society must be in deep pooh if we consider you, Soren.   Roll Eyes



Yeah, the place is full of people like me and it's so crappy, boat people want to get here even at the risk of drowning.

Real bad place, this.

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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:15pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:44pm:
So, do Muslims deserve to be treated with the same respect that other non-Muslim Australians appear to receive automatically? 


Do fascists, communists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists deserve respect FOR THE GROUP THEY CHOOSE TO BELONG TO?

No.


Your particular stupidity stems from treating ideology as if it was a biologically inherited trait, not a personal choice of values to live by.


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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #10 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:19pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:03pm:
Yadda wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:49pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

So, do Muslims deserve to be treated with the same respect that other non-Muslim Australians appear to receive automatically?
 



No.

A moslem does not deserve to be treated with the same respect as another non-moslem Australian.

He is a moslem.


Thank you, Yadda for demonstrating your bigotry for us so well and within so few lines in your opening post in the thread.  Well done!


You're honest, I will admit, you openly wear your bigotry on your sleeve, for all to see.

However, the question arises, do you understand why you're going against your own claimed religious beliefs on so many levels?  Therefore, why should we accept anything that such a hypocrite posts as being of any value?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes




It is not 'bigotry' to condemn the wannabe religious violence of moslems.

A religious violence which ISLAM encourages - within its own foundation texts.








brian the illogical;

CONSIDER;
If it can be [easily] demonstrated, that ISLAM [itself] is an intolerant mono-culture, which promotes religious bigotry, and the use of religious violence to advance its 'religion' and its 'religious' 'ideals'.....


e.g.
The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260


......then why do persons [i.e. moslems] who claim to support pluralism and tolerance, choose to so obviously associate themselves with ISLAM, and to identify themselves with ISLAM, when ISLAM is so obviously, a violent and intolerant philosophy ???






Bigotry, brian ?

Violent religious bigotry ?

See it here;


The social tents and laws of ISLAM, justify and encourage violence against persons who are not moslems -
PRECISELY BECAUSE THOSE PERSONS WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS, HAVE AUTHORITY OVER MOSLEMS


[We in Australia, i.e. persons who are not moslems, are able to make laws, which moslems are compelled to comply with, and that is a 'situation' which moslems absolutely abhor!
Moslems want to destroy our society, by destroying its laws, and destroying its institutions.
Because ISLAM is a better way, mad moslems believe.]



IMAGE...
...
Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, THAT, IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES, ...ALL MOSLEMS [FROM CHILDHOOD].



Q.
WHAT DOES THAT IMAGE [above] DEPICT ?;
1/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation.
2/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, exercising their lawful right >>> to express <<< their views and opinions, publicly.
3/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, who are, ALSO, inciting the murder of persons who would dare to PUBLICLY EXPRESS, that they [non-moslems], do not believe as they [moslems] believe.
4/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
...i.e. their 'right', to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

5/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, who [by their own PUBLIC DECLARATIONS] are seeking to intimidate [into silence] all other persons who may wish to PUBLICLY EXPRESS, that they [non-moslems], do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

AND #6/ What is being displayed, is group of moslems,
religious bigots
, openly and publicly 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.





THE KORAN [the foundational religious text, of ISLAM]....

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."

Koran 5.51


"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101


"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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wally1
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:28pm
 
The Koran doesn't even come close to these extremist passages.


Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)


Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


Kill Followers of Other Religions.


    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)


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Yadda
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #12 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:46pm
 
wally1 wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:28pm:
The Koran doesn't even come close to these extremist passages.


Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)


Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


Kill Followers of Other Religions.


    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)






wally1,

Although the consequences were very harsh, all of those instances from the OT, relate to persons who would or were breaking a solemn covenant that they had made with another party.

Are you saying persons who make a [lawful] agreement, with another party, should not in fact have to honour their agreement ?

And are you suggesting that that there should certainly be no penalty, for those who do not honour their agreements ?

All of those instances from the OT, relate to penalties against covenant breakers.
[i.e. these are persons who knew that they had entered into a binding agreement, a covenant, with another party - in this case, their God.]






The OT records that the Hebrew people freely entered into a covenant, with their God.

"...And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do....
"
Exodus 19:5-8



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Soren
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #13 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 9:15pm
 
wally1 wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:28pm:
The Koran doesn't even come close to these extremist passages.





And yet we have wall to wall Muslims killing all and sundry, Muslims, innocents, Jews, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, whatever.

Killing in the name of religion is a Muslim monopoly.


Why?

Well, because you either submit or you get it in the neck.


The West is about personal freedom. Islam is about the precise opposite of personal freedom, it is about personal submission.
The former lets you be, the latter compels you to its own ways at the pain of violence, death, subjugation, intimidation.

Islam will never give you freedom. All it will ever give you is the option to submit - to be un-free.

Foock that, laddie, as they say in Glasgowi
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Brian Ross
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Re: Harassement of Muslims in Australia
Reply #14 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 12:45am
 
Soren wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 8:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:41pm:
Muslims, like everyone else, must take responsibility for their reputation.



Applying that logic then, the rest of Australian society must be in deep pooh if we consider you, Soren.   Roll Eyes



Yeah, the place is full of people like me and it's so crappy, boat people want to get here even at the risk of drowning.


Thankfully, you are very much in the minority in Australia, Soren with your continued efforts at religious persecution.  Roll Eyes


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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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