Australian Politics Forum - Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for

Yadda

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Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:26pm

Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for "Islamophobia"

Essentially, worldwide, mainstream moslems, have been expressing [for many years] the opinion, that [any] critical scrutiny of ISLAM and ISLAMIC Sharia law [i.e. 'independent' scrutiny, by those who are not moslems] should be unlawful - and unlawful, on a global level.

The efforts of moslem organisations worldwide "....has long been to pressure Western countries into passing laws [within Western countries!] that would ban "negative stereotyping of Islam." "

e.g.
Under such a legal regime, 'publishing' or publicly quoting the Koran [e.g. on an internet forum] could be banned.

Why so ?

Because exposing people to the contents of Koranic verses, might be responsible for the spreading of the "negative stereotyping of Islam." - because you know, someone may 'misinterpret' what that Koranic verse says, and then tell someone else! Tongue

Just imagine, someone may read Koran 9.29, and as a consequence of reading that Koranic verse, think that ISLAM wasn't really a peaceful religion!!; Tongue

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Quote:

December 11, 2013 at 5:00 am
The Organization of Islamic Cooperation, an influential bloc of 57 Muslim countries, has released the latest edition of its annual "Islamophobia" report.

....the OIC—headquartered in Saudi Arabia and funded by dozens of Muslim countries that systematically persecute Christians and Jews—has long been to pressure Western countries into passing laws that would ban "negative stereotyping of Islam."

...the common thread that binds the entire document together is the OIC's repeated insistence that the main culprit responsible for "the institutionalization of Islamophobia" in Western countries is freedom of speech,....

....Chapter 4 of the report, "OIC Initiatives and Activities to Counter Islamophobia," focused on the OIC's ongoing efforts to promote the so-called Istanbul Process, an aggressive effort by Muslim countries to make it an international crime to criticize Islam. The explicit aim of the Istanbul Process is to enshrine in international law a global ban on all critical scrutiny of Islam and Islamic Sharia law.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4088/islamophobia-oic-free-speech

Could never happen in the West ?

Don't be so sure.

CONSIDER;
What a 'gift', this ISLAMIC report could be, to some pollies in Western nations, who were just looking for a good excuse to bring in legislation which could also curb scrutiny and reporting of their own [the pollies] activities!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #1 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:44pm

Hey Yadda, have you read the updated rules? No more crayon posting anymore. Now to the actual post.

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

has long been to pressure Western countries into passing laws that would ban "negative stereotyping of Islam."

There is nothing wrong with this. Negative stereotypes are always bad at every point throughout history. It often leads people to hold unjustified prejudices, and leads to many offensive stereotypes. Of course I have these thoughts towards every belief, not just Islam.

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

the main culprit responsible for "the institutionalization of Islamophobia" in Western countries is freedom of speech

This is really disingenuous, as it it presented as an aspect of the actual report, when I highly doubt it is (do you have a link to it? I'd be curious to give it a glance, thanks)

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for Reply #2 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 11:56pm The problem is what you really mean is Arabs, not Muslims.
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Yadda

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #3 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 7:01am

Stratos wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

Hey Yadda, have you read the updated rules? No more crayon posting anymore. Now to the actual post.

ISLAM board.

Quote:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

has long been to pressure Western countries into passing laws that would ban "negative stereotyping of Islam."

There is nothing wrong with this.

Negative stereotypes are always bad at every point throughout history.

It often leads people to hold unjustified prejudices, and leads to many offensive stereotypes. Of course I have these thoughts towards every belief, not just Islam.

Problem is S,
ON THE ONE HAND; what non-moslems will call a factual, provable assessment/reporting [about some aspect of ISLAM - e.g. the intimidatory or violent behaviour of some moslems, or, an assessment/reporting on ISLAMIC doctrines],
ON THE OTHER SIDE; moslems will still be determined to characterise as "negative stereotyping of Islam."

Or, isn't that a problem, S ?

Quote:

e.g.
Under such a legal regime, 'publishing' or publicly quoting the Koran [e.g. on an internet forum] could be banned.

Why so ?

Because exposing people to the contents of Koranic verses, might be responsible for the spreading of the "negative stereotyping of Islam." - because you know, someone may 'misinterpret' what that Koranic verse says, and then tell someone else! Tongue

Just imagine, someone may read Koran 9.29, and as a consequence of reading that Koranic verse, think that ISLAM wasn't really a peaceful religion!!; Tongue

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for Reply #4 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 7:45am So you are OK with negative stereotyping then Yadda? When can we expect you to bust out the blackface? Also, I notice you supplied zero evidence other than your own assumption that that is how Muslims behave and operate a usual
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #5 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 8:26am

Stratos wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 7:45am:

So you are OK with negative stereotyping then Yadda?

When can we expect you to bust out the blackface?

LOL

Oh i see.

So if a person, for example, went into a Golden Arches store with a firearm, and demanded the days takings;

Calling such a person, an armed robber is,
1/ extremely harsh,
2/ uncalled for, and,
3/ negative stereotyping then S ?

Stratos,

How would you describe a group of people who choose to follow a philosophy, which teaches them [moslems], that it is lawful for them [moslems] to either subjugate [i.e. enslave] or murder mankind ?

e.g.
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111i
Quote:

Also, I notice you supplied zero evidence other than your own assumption that that is how Muslims behave and operate a usual

You want evidence [of how ISLAM is a bad influence upon moslems] ?

Proof, that ISLAM has,
1/ a bad influence upon the 'worldview' of moslems, and,
2/ a harmful influence upon the behaviour/choices of moslems;

e.g. #1,

Mohamed Morsi-
"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

e.g. #2,
Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #6 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 8:59am

Oh look, lots of eviden..... wait no, the rantings of two extremists, thats what I meant.

Also your bank robber analogy is dumb and not an example of stereotyping as it only involves one person who is clearly doing the wrong thing. That is not what you are talking about, you are talking about an entire culture that consists of around one and a half billion people. I don't care if you point to extremists and go "yep, that guy is bad", in fact i would gladly join in with you on that, but that is not, nor ever is what you are doing.

What you do however is look at the people doing atrocities and say that is the norm for Muslims whilst providing zero evidence that it is the case. Can you seriously not see the difference between that and pointing out singular people?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Yadda

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #7 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 10:42am

Stratos wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 8:59am:

Oh look, lots of eviden..... wait no, the rantings of two extremists, thats what I meant.

Also your bank robber analogy is dumb and not an example of stereotyping as it only involves one person who is clearly doing the wrong thing. That is not what you are talking about, you are talking about an entire culture that consists of around one and a half billion people. I don't care if you point to extremists and go "yep, that guy is bad", in fact i would gladly join in with you on that, but that is not, nor ever is what you are doing.

What you do however is look at the people doing atrocities and say that is the norm for Muslims whilst providing zero evidence that it is the case. Can you seriously not see the difference between that and pointing out singular people?

Stratos,

LOL

People accuse me of believing in faerie tales, and of believing in an imaginary friend!

Stratos,

In your world, you believe that moslems and their worldview [and the behaviour of moslems], are not influenced by;
the ISLAM of Allah,
the ISLAM of Mohammed,
the ISLAM of the Koran,
the ISLAM of the Hadith.

Stratos,
You, and yours [apologists for ISLAMISTS], are living in a la la land !

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Dictionary,
la-la land = =
1 Los Angeles or Hollywood, especially with regard to the film and television industry.
2 a dreamworld.

Stratos,

[I was going to say that, it doesn't matter, but] it does matter, if we are residents in la-la land.

Because, [maybe not today.... but] one day, what is real [i.e. the truth], is going to 'bite' us.

The truth is something that [long term] none of us can avoid.

IMAGE...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #8 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 11:03am

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-16/islamic-groups-condemn-violent-sydney-prot...

Quote:

"Violence is no way an answer to anything and we condemn the violence that's happened,"
"Our Prophet - peace be upon him - was constantly ridiculed and repeatedly assaulted and abused, but every time he responded with dignity, restraint, kindness and showed patience.
"The individuals responsible for the violent outburst run completely contrary to Islamic tradition, and the rest of the community is equally as outraged and we sincerely hope this doesn't further damage relationships between the Australian Muslim community and the wider Australian community."
"Each time individuals in the community engage in violent behaviour or criminal behaviour, the rest of the community is dragged through the mud and essentially put on trial,"
"The Prophet Mohammed himself would be appalled that people are calling for violence,"
"If we want to prove that we are true Muslims, then we should be out there projecting love to the rest of society."

Sorry for the long quotes, but that is what you were asking for.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/top-australian-muslim-leader-condemns-...

Quote:

Sheik Saleem said it was people’s right to protest in a democracy but condemned the violent scenes in Sydney.
"Hate crimes are a huge concern for us, because it's almost inevitable when a group of thugs does something wrong,
The Islamic Council of Victoria is likely to hold an emergency meeting this week to try to quell any violence from or towards the Muslim community.
In a show of disgust 14 Muslim groups released a statement through the Australian Islamic Community attacking the violence and pleading for it to end.
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms, the provocative and offensive content of the film depicting the Prophet Muhammad that was recently released," they said.

"However, such insults do not provide individuals with the right to react violently against others and retaliate in a manner as was demonstrated by a few of the protesters yesterday.

That enough condemnation for you?

Stop posting that photo, as I have clearly shown you there are far more Australian Muslims who are condemning those actions.

Stop lying about what Taqiyya is, as you have clearly been shown that what you say about it is wrong and misleading

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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wally1

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #9 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 11:13am

Stratos wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 11:03am:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-16/islamic-groups-condemn-violent-sydney-prot...

Quote:

"Violence is no way an answer to anything and we condemn the violence that's happened,"
"Our Prophet - peace be upon him - was constantly ridiculed and repeatedly assaulted and abused, but every time he responded with dignity, restraint, kindness and showed patience.
"The individuals responsible for the violent outburst run completely contrary to Islamic tradition, and the rest of the community is equally as outraged and we sincerely hope this doesn't further damage relationships between the Australian Muslim community and the wider Australian community."
"Each time individuals in the community engage in violent behaviour or criminal behaviour, the rest of the community is dragged through the mud and essentially put on trial,"
"The Prophet Mohammed himself would be appalled that people are calling for violence,"
"If we want to prove that we are true Muslims, then we should be out there projecting love to the rest of society."

Sorry for the long quotes, but that is what you were asking for.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/top-australian-muslim-leader-condemns-...

Quote:

Sheik Saleem said it was people’s right to protest in a democracy but condemned the violent scenes in Sydney.
"Hate crimes are a huge concern for us, because it's almost inevitable when a group of thugs does something wrong,
The Islamic Council of Victoria is likely to hold an emergency meeting this week to try to quell any violence from or towards the Muslim community.
In a show of disgust 14 Muslim groups released a statement through the Australian Islamic Community attacking the violence and pleading for it to end.
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms, the provocative and offensive content of the film depicting the Prophet Muhammad that was recently released," they said.

"However, such insults do not provide individuals with the right to react violently against others and retaliate in a manner as was demonstrated by a few of the protesters yesterday.

That enough condemnation for you?

Stop posting that photo, as I have clearly shown you there are far more Australian Muslims who are condemning those actions.

Stop lying about what Taqiyya is, as you have clearly been shown that what you say about it is wrong and misleading

And that's why there was no protest the following week or further unplanned protests.SO the Muslim leaders did there bit.

Even hot head sydney cleric sheik Feiz warned the Muslims not to protest.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #10 - Dec 14^th, 2013 at 2:10pm

Yadda wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 10:42am:

Stratos wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 8:59am:

Oh look, lots of eviden..... wait no, the rantings of two extremists, thats what I meant.

Also your bank robber analogy is dumb and not an example of stereotyping as it only involves one person who is clearly doing the wrong thing. That is not what you are talking about, you are talking about an entire culture that consists of around one and a half billion people. I don't care if you point to extremists and go "yep, that guy is bad", in fact i would gladly join in with you on that, but that is not, nor ever is what you are doing.

What you do however is look at the people doing atrocities and say that is the norm for Muslims whilst providing zero evidence that it is the case. Can you seriously not see the difference between that and pointing out singular people?

Stratos,

LOL

People accuse me of believing in faerie tales, and of believing in an imaginary friend!

No, that is what they say, Yadda. It's not an accusation when it's true... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Quantum

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Re: Moslems blame free speech in Western nations, for
Reply #11 - Dec 14^th, 2013 at 5:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 2:10pm:

No, that is what they say, Yadda. It's not an accusation when it's true... Roll Eyes

So accusations can never be true? Because if they were true, then they wouldn't be accusations?

Ok then. If that's the case, I guess no one could accuse you of being a spineless, idiotic, bitter, trolling, poof of a man.

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