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Australia Grows More "Asian" (Read 34605 times)
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #240 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 4:42pm
 
ian wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:57pm:
... wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:51pm:
Any recommendations on what i should read?

I'd recommend you read this


I generally stay away from blog opinion posts. If this is where you are getting your knowledge base from no wonder you have a paucity of it. I suggest you start reading any peer reviewed accepted scientific fact as a starter.


The reason I posted this, was because his description is well written for what was only ever going to be a game of semantics.

Quote:
What are races?

In my own field of evolutionary biology, races of animals (also called “subspecies” or “ecotypes”) are morphologically distinguishable populations that live in allopatry (i.e. are geographically separated).  There is no firm criterion on how much morphological difference it takes to delimit a race.  Races of mice, for example, are described solely on the basis of difference in coat color, which could involve only one or two genes.

Under that criterion, are there human races?

Yes.  As we all know, there are morphologically different groups of people who live in different areas, though those differences are blurring due to recent innovations in transportation that have led to more admixture between human groups.


Can you contest this concept of race?
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #241 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:03pm
 
... wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 8:38am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 10:54pm:
... wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 9:31pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:24pm:
Sparky wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 6:05pm:
If races are like breeds of dogs I wonder what Asian's would be?



Is "Asian" a race?




Is "terrier" a breed?



Try to stay focused, Honky.

You've already made a complete fool of yourself by not answering simple questions.

Continuing to answer questions with (unrelated) questions is just making you look like an absolute tool.

But then again, if the shoe fits ...


I'm just trying to help - You'll learn more if you can figure it out for yourself.  

IF "terrier" is a breed, then you wouldn't be able to see any distinctions between:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SsH8Cj8QwXU/ULoaR6I4r1I/AAAAAAAAAOU/Rylud-FOouU/s1600/...

and:

http://emigratetonewzealand.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/pit_bull_terrier.jpg

Can you see any difference?  they're very subtle, but I can see a few.


What are you trying to prove? They are for all intents and purposes the same animal. You get more variation from sexual dimorphism within species than what we see here. I've seen humans that are more disparate looking than those dogs. Grin
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #242 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:07pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:06pm:
Pretending not to see evident, obvious difference is just plain stupid.




Indeed.

Which is why nobody has actually done that.


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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #243 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:08pm
 
Wikipedia-The connection between race and intelligence has been a subject of debate in both popular science and academic research since the inception of IQ testing in the early 20th century. The debate concerns the interpretation of research findings that American test takers identifying as "White" tend on average to score higher than test takers of African ancestry on IQ tests.
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #244 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:17pm
 
ian wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:51am:
This explains it very well for the beginners and non academically inclined in this subject like Honky.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f00/web2/ramon2.html

Quote:
Beginning in the 1940's, scientists began to realize that the racial map of human beings did not match what they were learning of human genes. Scientists due agree with the idea that people look different, mainly because of the varied environments in which they and their ancestors live. They have physically changed as environmental conditions warranted. Take skin color, as an example. It is essentially an adaptation to the amount of sun received. People from regions with lots of direct overhead sunlight (the tropics) tend to have darker skin than people from cloudy or oblique sunlight regions (northern temperate zones). Since melanin protects the skin from harmful ultraviolet radiation, people with more melanin in tropical areas tended to live longer, and produce more children, than people who were melanin deficient. Sunlight also stimulates vitamin D production. People from northern Europe and Asia who had little or no melanin were able to absorb more of the little sunlight there was, which enabled them to produce more vitamin D. (7)

Vast new data in human biology have completely revamped the traditional notions of race. Race is a biological term that describes the DNA structure of an individual as a fixed attribute that cannot be changed. This idea is used in biology to discuss how different peoples adapt to environments and hence, making the term "race" have no scientific basis. Today most scientists reject the concept of race as a valid way of defining human beings. Researchers no longer believe that races are distinct biological categories created by differences in genes that people inherit from their ancestors. Genes vary, but not in the popular notion of black, white, yellow, red and brown races. Many biologist and anthropologists have concluded that race is a social, cultural and political concept based largely on superficial appearances. (4)

In the past, races were identified by the imposition of discrete boundaries upon continuous and often discordant biological variation. The concept of race is therefore a historical construct and not one that provides either valid classification or an explanatory process. Popular everyday awareness of race is transmitted from generation to generation through cultural learning. Attributing race to an individual or a population amounts to applying a social and cultural label that lacks scientific consensus and supporting data. While anthropologists continue to study how and why humans vary biologically, it is apparent that human populations differ from one another much less than do populations in other species because we use our cultural, rather than our physical differences to aid us in adapting to various environments.


Its not that difficult to understand and no need to get bogged down in semantics, the term "race" is used for convenience as is the classification of humans into different racial groups.


Race remains one of the most practical arbirary boundaries for grouping populations with divergent cultural values from other populations. This is almost certainly due to the fact that the same boundaries that inhibit the flow of genes also inhibit the flow of memes. In my personal experience, racism has proven the most accurate litmus test for what I can prepare myself to expect from people based on initial impressions of appearance, smell and sound.
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #245 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:19pm
 
Sparky wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:08pm:
Wikipedia-The connection between race and intelligence has been a subject of debate in both popular science and academic research since the inception of IQ testing in the early 20th century. The debate concerns the interpretation of research findings that American test takers identifying as "White" tend on average to score higher than test takers of African ancestry on IQ tests.


Just FYI that's all bogus.
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #246 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:21pm
 
... wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 4:02pm:
aaaand along comes the ol' appeal to "any peer reviewed scientific fact" as if you had expertise, experience or even an interest in the topic. you don't know what you read, but you know it was peer-reviewed.  Grin   What a copout - do you think anyone believes your "understanding" comes from anything more substantial than "I heard something, somewhere"?  Do you think you can hide the fact you've never read a single book on the subject by feigning an air of dismissive arrogance?  Do you clods have any awareness of how hollow and transparent you are? 


The most hard hitting statement from your "be-all-and-end-all" link:

Quote:
Many biologist and anthropologists have concluded that race is a social, cultural and political concept based largely on superficial appearances.


unstated number of unnamed scientists have concluded.  Gee.  Do you see the difference between that and "science has thoroughly discredited the notion of race"?


But again, they give the game away by what they skirt around:

"Based largely on superficial appearances". 

Say, what causes our appearances?  What causes our eyes to look slitty or our skin be pale? 

our genes, right? 

And if that's what it's 'largely' based on, as opposed to 'totally' based on, what else is there? 


You are aware that humans started specialising millenia ago right? Where would we be today if we had to grow our own wheat, make our own bread, raise our own livestock etc. Roll Eyes
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #247 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:34pm
 
Grendel wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 9:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 8:20pm:
Grendel wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
Hey bwian...

Quote:
Since the 1960s, some anthropologists and teachers of anthropology[who?] have re-conceived "race" as a cultural category or social construct, in other words, as a particular way that some people have of talking about themselves and others. As such it cannot be a useful analytical concept; rather, the use of the term "race" itself must be analyzed. Others[who?] have argued that the concept of race as a social construct is itself a social construct that has little validity outside of contemporary humanities.
Grin Grin Grin

source=bwian=wiki  Grin

Love it when they agree with me.  Grin


Errr, they don't.   As for Wiki, I rarely question it as a source, Beowulf.   Only when it is demonstrably wrong.   In this case it is not.

Your science journal however....   Roll Eyes

Dear bwian...  dear dumb bwian...  I keep posting dictionary definitions yet you ignore them, is that because you are wrong or is it because you are trying to ignore yet another truth? Roll Eyes


"Dictionary Definitons"?  Where?  How can I tell what you're posting, Beowulf, you don't provide any references...   Roll Eyes

As far as I am aware, it is just your opinion.

Quote:
Race exists bwian and it exists in he form I highlighted, only a complete moron or some deluded PC twit would deny it.


"Race" as you and all other racists use it, is a social construction, Beowulf.   There is only one "race", the human race.
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #248 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:41pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:34pm:
"Dictionary Definitons"?  Where?  How can I tell what you're posting, Beowulf, you don't provide any references...   Roll Eyes



  Grin Grin Grin Your hypocrisy is astounding but not unusual.
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #249 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:43pm
 
Winston Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:03pm:
... wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 8:38am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 10:54pm:
... wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 9:31pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:24pm:
Sparky wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 6:05pm:
If races are like breeds of dogs I wonder what Asian's would be?



Is "Asian" a race?




Is "terrier" a breed?



Try to stay focused, Honky.

You've already made a complete fool of yourself by not answering simple questions.

Continuing to answer questions with (unrelated) questions is just making you look like an absolute tool.

But then again, if the shoe fits ...


I'm just trying to help - You'll learn more if you can figure it out for yourself.  

IF "terrier" is a breed, then you wouldn't be able to see any distinctions between:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SsH8Cj8QwXU/ULoaR6I4r1I/AAAAAAAAAOU/Rylud-FOouU/s1600/...

and:

http://emigratetonewzealand.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/pit_bull_terrier.jpg

Can you see any difference?  they're very subtle, but I can see a few.


What are you trying to prove? They are for all intents and purposes the same animal. You get more variation from sexual dimorphism within species than what we see here. I've seen humans that are more disparate looking than those dogs. Grin


Simply that breed is to dogs as race is to humans.  They're all the same species, they can all interbreed.  That's even where the word 'race' came from - french for breed.

We recognise different breeds of dog, yet we pretend humans are not subject to the same laws of genetic inheritance that produce them.  There's not one rule for animals and another for humans - that sounds a bit creationist. 

Are race deniers the new creationists?
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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:51pm by ... »  

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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #250 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:15pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:07pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:06pm:
Pretending not to see evident, obvious difference is just plain stupid.




Indeed.

Which is why nobody has actually done that.



Except you (and Brain/Stavos/Tits and all the other indistinguishable, shocked and outraged aunties.)

You want to ignore the obvious differences as a matter of 'PC sensitivity'. A Dane looks nothing like a Nigerian or a Japanese. No matter what you say.

I am looking forward to your next idiotic squirming, Peckerhead.  Here's a simple question, Pecker: can you tell a European from an African and from an East/South East Asian?






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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #251 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:22pm
 
Winston Smith wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:19pm:
Sparky wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:08pm:
Wikipedia-The connection between race and intelligence has been a subject of debate in both popular science and academic research since the inception of IQ testing in the early 20th century. The debate concerns the interpretation of research findings that American test takers identifying as "White" tend on average to score higher than test takers of African ancestry on IQ tests.


Just FYI that's all bogus.
There's variation in genes between races that lead to bone and skull shape differences etc etc. Why can't there be differences in brain function? Why didn't the aborigines invent anything for instance.
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #252 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:15pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:07pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:06pm:
Pretending not to see evident, obvious difference is just plain stupid.




Indeed.

Which is why nobody has actually done that.



Except you (and Brain/Stavos/Tits and all the other indistinguishable, shocked and outraged aunties.)

You want to ignore the obvious differences as a matter of 'PC sensitivity'. A Dane looks nothing like a Nigerian or a Japanese. No matter what you say.

I am looking forward to your next idiotic squirming, Peckerhead.  Here's a simple question, Pecker: can you tell a European from an African and from an East/South East Asian?



Superficial physical differences, the result of evolutionary adaptation to local conditions, nothing more, Soren.   The result is different skin colouring, the shape of eyes or other things.

Deep down, at a genetic level, we are all the same.  All the supposed "races" can and do interbreed.  Nothing prevents that.   Therefore, the emphasis on "race" that you and others place on it, is purely a social construction, Soren.    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #253 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Deep down, at a genetic level, we are all the same.



Except where we're not.  depending how vague you want to be, you could say deep down we are all the same as chimps. 


As Jared Diamond, UCLA physiologist has noted, if an alien were to arrive on our planet and analyze our DNA, humans would appear as a third race of chimpanzees, who share 98.4 percent of our DNA. Just 50 out of the 32,00 genes that humans and chimps are thought to possess, or approximately 0.15 percent, may account for all of the cognitive differences between man and ape.


Is species also insignificant or non existent?  For some, perhaps.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
All the supposed "races" can and do interbreed.


So can all dog breeds.  What's your point?

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Nothing prevents that.



Except for geographical and cultural barriers.  The very geographical and cultural barriers which saw races arise in the first place.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Therefore, the emphasis on "race" that you and others place on it, is purely a social construction, Soren.



Just like dog breeds are purely a social construction.  Good luck sending a mastiff down a rabbit hole, or taking your chihuahua pig hunting. 

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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:40pm by ... »  

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Re: Australia Grows More "Asian"
Reply #254 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:39pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:15pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:07pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 3:06pm:
Pretending not to see evident, obvious difference is just plain stupid.




Indeed.

Which is why nobody has actually done that.



Except you (and Brain/Stavos/Tits and all the other indistinguishable, shocked and outraged aunties.)

You want to ignore the obvious differences as a matter of 'PC sensitivity'. A Dane looks nothing like a Nigerian or a Japanese. No matter what you say.

I am looking forward to your next idiotic squirming, Peckerhead.  Here's a simple question, Pecker: can you tell a European from an African and from an East/South East Asian?



Superficial physical differences, the result of evolutionary adaptation to local conditions, nothing more, Soren.   The result is different skin colouring, the shape of eyes or other things.

Deep down, at a genetic level, we are all the same.  All the supposed "races" can and do interbreed.  Nothing prevents that.   Therefore, the emphasis on "race" that you and others place on it, is purely a social construction, Soren.    Roll Eyes
No we aren't. Why don't Asians have blue eyes? Because there's a gene that Caucasians have that the other races don't for coloured eyes. So we aren't all the same. Why say things that aren't true. Now if you said the races have  slight genetic differences that determine some behaviours and physicality  but we are  basically the same animal then we'd all agree.
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