Australian Politics Forum - Pew survey of Muslims' opinions

wally1

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #45 - Dec 24^th, 2013 at 12:41pm

ian wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 10:43pm:

[quote]
If you never asked them what their opinion is, you have no insight into what their opinion is. The Pew survey asked them what their opinion is. Pretty basic stuff I know, but it trumps you being their and talking to them about everything but their opinion on these matters. You are no better than Brian in claiming you have more insight than an organisation that actually asks people what they think.

Based on this you would have no insight into what australians think even though you live in this country. You have talked yourself into a blind alley on this one I am afraid.

Quote:

I am not projecting. I am presenting you with the facts. Muslims were asked what their opinion is. This is what they said. It is obviously you who is projecting. This is about as transparent as it gets.

.

You don't know any facts, all you know is the results of "surveys" you found on the internet. You know nothing about the people quizzed, how they were quizzed, the legitimacy of the survey or anything at all.

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What agenda does Pew have? Why did you suggest the questions were loaded if you have no clue at all? Projecting perhaps?

I don't know, but neither do you.

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English Ian. Do you speak it? This was an opinion survey. It reveals what people think, not what they do. How many times do I have to spell it out for you before it sinks in? Muslims are quite open about the concept of obeying the law of the land even when they think it should be different. They only go silent when asked how they ought to achieve that change.

Your credibility on what these cultures think is zero.

They probably surveyed 100 people.

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Yadda

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #46 - Dec 24^th, 2013 at 1:30pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 11:05am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

wally1 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 9:24am:

GETTING BACK TO INDONESIA, ian;

This Christmas season in Indonesia;

Quote:

Interfaith outreach in Indonesia: New rash of church closings, signs hung near church saying

"Jesus is a dog,"

"Kill the Christians"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/images/INDONESIA_%28F%29_0427_-_Pastore_ucciso.jpg

IMAGE SOURCE;
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/12/interfaith-outreach-in-indonesia-new-rash-of-c...

Indonesia is a large and expansive country.

I'm sure ian, didn't come across those moslems on his visits there.

Right ian ?

Muslims believe in Jesus.hard to believe they would call him a dog.

Ah but wally, you are 'conveniently' forgetting about the duality [of 'being'] which ISLAM 'broadcasts', into this world.

e.g.
1/ There is the world, according to everyone else.

2/ And then, there is the world, according to moslems/ISLAM.

It is only the Christian Jesus, the Jesus of the New Testament, who is a dog.

For moslems, there is another Jesus,

the Jesus of the Koran, the 'moslem Jesus'.

And it is the 'moslem Jesus', who is the one who is revered by moslems.

And [according to ISLAMIC doctrine], the 'moslem Jesus' will return at the end of the world, to slaughter all of the Christians, for not being moslems.

LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN;
According to ISLAMIC doctrine, the 'moslem Jesus' will return at the end of the world, to slaughter all of the Christians.

I am not kidding.

And THAT, is the 'Jesus', who is revered by ISLAM, and moslems.

The 'Jesus' who is the ISLAMIC Jihadist.

......who on his return, is going to slaughter all Christians, because they are not moslems.

well that's your view.

There is no muslim jesus or Christian jesus.

They are the same person but both religions think differently of him.

In islam, jesus is a prophet.

In christinaity, you don't know who he is.

One day he a prophet, one day he is the son, one day he is God.

There is only one jesus, just the beleifs about him vary between the religions.

Exactly so - NOT!

Quote:

The Muslim Jesus.

The name Jesus

Also known as:
Isa, Eesa al-Maseeh, Hadrat Isa, Isa bin Maryam, or Nabi Isa.

Translates into:
Jesus, Jesus the Messiah, Honorable Jesus, Jesus son of May, or Prophet Jesus.

Important Note: For the remainder of this project in an effort to avoid confusion between Jesus of Christianity and Jesus of Islam, we will be using his Arabic name Isa when referring to the Islamic version of Jesus.

A Brief Description

Contrary to the Christian belief regarding Jesus, according to Islam, Isa was never crucified, was not the Son of God, was not divine, never experienced death, and was only a human prophet. The expected return of Isa is not remotely similar to what Christians expect with the return of Jesus. Instead, the character and actions of Isa are far more similar to the false prophet mentioned in Revelation.

A Brief Summary of Isa' Future Accomplishments

1). He will be subordinate to the Mahdi.
2). Directs all attention off of himself and onto the Mahdi.
3). A devout Muslim.
4). Institutes Islamic Sharia Law.
5). Acts as a Muslim evangelist.
6). Abolishes Christianity.
7). Kills the Dajjal as well as his Jewish followers.
8). Persecute Christians and Jews and forces them to convert or face death.
9). Remains on earth approximately four years.
10). Marries and eventually dies.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread423757/pg1

Above, the individual known as the Mahdi, is the ISLAMIC saviour.

n.b.
"...according to Islam,
Isa [Jesus] was never crucified,
was not the Son of God,
was not divine,
never experienced death,
and was only a human prophet."

ISLAMIC eschatology and Christian eschatology are essentially role reversals.

How surprising, NOT.

e.g.
The Jewish God [protector of spiritual Israel], is the ISLAMIC SATAN [protector of Jew's, and of Israel, and source of everything evil, and sponsor of all things un-ISLAMIC in this world].

The moslem Jesus is a subordinate of the ISLAMIC end time 'saviour', the Mahdi.

If you are interested, look it up.

Google;
comparing islam christianity dual eschatology

Google;
comparing islam christianity eschatology

'eschatology', is the term referring to 'the end time' theology of a particular religion.

Islam is the Exact Opposite of Christianity
http://www.christianeschatology.com/#islam_the_opposite

n.b.

ISLAM is the Exact Opposite of Christianity

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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wally1

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #47 - Dec 24^th, 2013 at 2:53pm

Sparky wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 11:09am:

All Christians know that Jesus is the son of god wally.

Its pretty strange that the son of God is only on the second level of paradise.

Prophet Abraham and moses are on higher levels in paradise.

So much for being the son of god, jesus is lower than Abraham and moses.

Shouldn't he be on the highest level of paradise?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #48 - Dec 24^th, 2013 at 6:02pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 5:19am:

The apologists have become increasingly absurd in their desperate attempts to exonerate Muslims from Islamic accountability for their uncivilised opinions.

It's particularly ugly when we witness this in people who are otherwise intelligent and educated.

Endless spin to distract from the facts becomes habitual to their every response to the exposure of Islam and Muslims' medieval perspectives on morality and punishment.

********

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/550078b0-8d4b-...

You have to question the sanity of political parties who still support Muslim immigration ... and the sanity of non-Muslims in the electorate who continue to vote for them.

A full 30% of British Muslims surveyed were sympathetic to suicide bombings.

Suicide is haram, perhaps you should call it a retarded fvckwit martyrdom operation which is halal.

Quote:

Definition of Martyrdom operations,and their effect on the enemy.

Martyrdom or self sacrifice operations are those performed by one or more people,against enemies far outstripping them in numbers and equipment,with prior knowledge that the operations will almost inevitably lead to death.
www.religioscope.com/pdf/martyrdom.pdf

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #49 - Dec 26^th, 2013 at 8:47am

Quote:

Based on this you would have no insight into what australians think even though you live in this country. You have talked yourself into a blind alley on this one I am afraid.

I see you are still struggling with the concept Ian. It works like this: if you want to know what someone's opinion is, ask them, don't tell them. Does that make sense?

Muslim: I support the death penalty for apostasy.

Ian: Shut up Muslim, if I want to know what you think, I'll tell you. Now as I was saying, Muslims think that...

Quote:

You don't know any facts, all you know is the results of "surveys" you found on the internet. You know nothing about the people quizzed, how they were quizzed, the legitimacy of the survey or anything at all.

It's all right there for you to see if you are interested.

Quote:

I don't know, but neither do you.

Again, they are quite open about what they do.

Quote:

Your credibility on what these cultures think is zero.

That is why I go by surveys of what the people actually think, rather than your method of being too afraid to ask and guessing instead.

Wally:

Quote:

They probably surveyed 100 people.

Like I said to Ian, it is all there for you to see if you are interested. There is no need to make up lies.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Pete Waldo

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #50 - Dec 28^th, 2013 at 1:34am

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 9:49am:

Graphs and surveys and evidence are fine.
But with ISLAM and moslems, we are fighting against lies and consummate liars.

I believe many would lie and claim they weren't into death for apostasy and blasphemy, through embarrassment at the time of the interview, or perhaps from not yet being given over entirely to a reprobate mind. Even here in the U.S.:

From a poll conducted by Wenzel Strategies on Oct. 22-26, 2012 regarding U.S. Muslims in the "land of the free": “Almost half of those Muslims surveyed – an astonishing 46 percent – said they believe those Americans who offer criticism or parodies of Islam should face criminal charges,” said pollster Fritz Wenzel in an analysis of the survey’s results."

“Even more shocking: One in eight respondents said they think those Americans who criticize or parody Islam should face the death penalty, while another nine percent said they were unsure on the question”. And that's in America! Of course in Pakistan those guilty of so-called "blasphemy" are subject to the death penalty by law. They are pushing the U.N. to globalize penalties for blasphemy against Muhammad. This even though Muhammad and every one of his followers is guilty of blasphemy against Jesus Christ and the God of the Jews and Christians.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

The reason is that the father of lies cannot defend his lies, so he must resort to censorship through murder, of those who point out his lies and the reprobate nature of his "messengers".

While Christians understand that the truth can readily defend itself, and thus pity and pray for those so lost as to parody, make fun of and criticize Jesus - as is done all over the world - recognizing it to be a matter between the blasphemer and Jesus Christ.

Like these Muslims at NYU that mocked the last supper:
creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2013/12/25/nyu-muslims-mock-last-supper-for-christm
as-season/

"The imam of the same Islamic Center at NYU issued veiled threats of jihad if the university displayed the Danish Mohammad Cartoons. NYU bowed down. Islamic thugs and hypocrites abound."
creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/nypds-muslim-chaplain-seeks-new-policies
-for-muslim-cops/

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« Last Edit: Dec 28^th, 2013 at 2:25am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Pete Waldo

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Majority Europe's Muslims Favor Sharia Over Democr
Reply #51 - Dec 28^th, 2013 at 3:28am

clarionproject.org/analysis/majority-europes-muslims-favor-sharia-over-democracy

"Majority of Europe's Muslims Favor Sharia Over Democracy
Multiculturalists argue that Muslim citizens will eventually adopt the West's democratic mindset. These findings make that doubtful."

"The majority of Muslims in Europe believe Islamic Sharia law should take precedence over the secular constitutions and laws of their European host countries, according to a new study, which warns that Islamic fundamentalism is widespread and rising sharply in Western Europe.

The "Six Country Immigrant Integration Comparative Survey"—a five-year study of Moroccan and Turkish immigrants in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and Sweden—was published on December 11 by theWZB Berlin Social Science Center, one of the largest social science research institutes in Europe.

According to the study (German and English), which was funded by the German government, two thirds (65%) of the Muslims interviewed say Islamic Sharia law is more important to them than the laws of the country in which they live."

Much more:
clarionproject.org/analysis/majority-europes-muslims-favor-sharia-over-democracy

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Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions Reply #52 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 8:59pm Obviously this would never come to pass, because Malaysian Muslims do not think what they say they think, hey Gandalf? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Malaysia In the 1990s, the PAS-led state governments passed Islamic hudud laws in Terengganu, but was struck down by the secular federal government.
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions Reply #53 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 9:14pm freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2014 at 8:59pm: In the 1990s And like that you've lost me
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freediver

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #54 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 9:28pm

The Pew survey was conducted in 2013. The majority of Malaysian Muslims still support stoning adulterers to death and executing apostates. The point of the article is that contrary to Gandalf's little fairy tale, this is not some distant abstract possibility to the extent that what Muslims really think is different to what they say they think. Muslims would not, as Gandalf insists, suddenly change their mind if the possibility became real. It is not, as Gandalf suggests, a non-issue that people don't even talk about. It is not, as Gandalf suggests, failing only because Muslims lack the will to go through with it. Rather, it is a real political issue that has almost come to pass in the past and would have if the Muslims in this state had got their way.

These Muslims actually want to stone adulterers to death. They actually want to execute apostates. I know this might be a shock to you, but Muslims actually think what they say they think.

See Gandalf attempt to argue further that it is not the non-Muslim ethnic Chinese and Indians (who hold the democratic balance of power on the issue in the rest of the country) who are getting in the way of these laws, but somehow the Muslims who say they support them but don't really support them:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388619982

Gandalf even tried to argue that the Indians and Chinese would be happy for Muslims to execute apostates and stone adulterers to death, because of a survey he found in which stoning adulterers and executing apostates was not even mentioned. He seems to think that the Indians and Chinese might see it as a Muslim's right to execute apostates.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388997344

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« Last Edit: Jan 14^th, 2014 at 9:38pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions Reply #55 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 9:43pm freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2014 at 8:59pm: but was struck down by the secular federal government. Secular in name perhaps. The government has always been pro-Muslim
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Pete Waldo

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #56 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:08pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

Muslims believe in Jesus
.hard to believe they would call him a dog.

Tragically, nothing could be more exactly and specifically further from the truth, Wally. You can wish that you "believe in Jesus" just as you can wish you believe the tooth fairy were true, but simply wishing wouldn't make that vain wish magically become truth. To believe in Jesus isn't just to believe He existed, like any reasonable atheist would, but to "believe in Jesus" one must believe in the whole purpose for which He was made manifest to the world.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

You can parrot Islam's famous Greek sophist styled dissimulating entertainers and lying antichrists like Ahmed Deedat, until the cows come home, but that won't mean "Muslims believe in Jesus" either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnEZ4nUhoU

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS you've only been deceived by Satan into believing that "Muslims believe in Jesus", even while you must DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, as an article of your faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

You've been deceived into believing "Muslims believe in Jesus" even as you DENY and even blaspheme the Son of God.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

Thus Muhammad and his followers are exactly, specifically and undeniably ANTICHRIST as another article of your faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.

1John 2:22 .....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:.....
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

That's why Muhammad was inspired by Satan to command his followers to conquer and subjugate the whole of mankind, to DISbelieving the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and DENYING the Son of God.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

Thus you must reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, as revealed through ALL of His prophets and witnesses, whose people have followed Him through two covenants over 3500 years - to follow the 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterate false prophet Muhammad alone, through his STAND-ALONE heavily abrogated 23-year scripture-contrary record, of a counter-YHWH anti-religion with a pre-Muhammad history-devoid, archaeology-absent, reality-rejecting, geographically-impossible so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, yet was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca_islam.htm

Sorry, my friend, but that's the absolute and unvarnished truth of the matter.

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« Last Edit: Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:59pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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ian

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #57 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:29pm

freediver wrote on Dec 26^th, 2013 at 8:47am:

Quote:

Based on this you would have no insight into what australians think even though you live in this country. You have talked yourself into a blind alley on this one I am afraid.

I see you are still struggling with the concept Ian. It works like this: if you want to know what someone's opinion is, ask them, don't tell them. Does that make sense?

Muslim: I support the death penalty for apostasy.

Ian: Shut up Muslim, if I want to know what you think, I'll tell you. Now as I was saying, Muslims think that...

Quote:

You don't know any facts, all you know is the results of "surveys" you found on the internet. You know nothing about the people quizzed, how they were quizzed, the legitimacy of the survey or anything at all.

It's all right there for you to see if you are interested.

Quote:

I don't know, but neither do you.

Again, they are quite open about what they do.

Quote:

Your credibility on what these cultures think is zero.

That is why I go by surveys of what the people actually think, rather than your method of being too afraid to ask and guessing instead.

Wally:

Quote:

They probably surveyed 100 people.

Like I said to Ian, it is all there for you to see if you are interested. There is no need to make up lies.

Not only are you fabricating what I allegedly said you are attributing comments made by other posters to me. In other words your argument is incoherent. You continually lie about what I posted, very sad.

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ian

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #58 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:30pm

freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Obviously this would never come to pass, because Malaysian Muslims do not think what they say they think, hey Gandalf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Malaysia

In the 1990s, the PAS-led state governments passed Islamic hudud laws in Terengganu, but was struck down by the secular federal government.

Put your dunce cap on and go and sit in the corner. From your link

Quote:

Sharia legal system[edit]

Parallel to the civil courts, there are Sharia courts which conduct legal matters related to Muslim family sphere

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freediver

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Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #59 - Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:47pm

Ian, you are confused, on both counts.

Quote:

Not only are you fabricating what I allegedly said you are attributing comments made by other posters to me. In other words your argument is incoherent. You continually lie about what I posted, very sad.

I only attributed one quote directly to you. I have checked, and it was made by you.

Quote:

Put your dunce cap on and go and sit in the corner. From your link

Ian, Hudud laws are the group that involve cutting off limbs, heads etc. Malaysia has shariah law for family court. This is not the hudud laws, although the majority of Muslims in Malaysia want the hudud laws also.

BTW Ian, do you still believe that all those Muslims were wrong about their own opinion, and you know what they really think, even though you never actually asked them?

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« Last Edit: Jan 14^th, 2014 at 10:55pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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