Australian Politics Forum - Is Christian religion dying out?

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #105 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:08am

Yadda wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 1:22am:

muso,

Turn on your TV, and watch the TV news tonight.

And see if mankind seem to be happy and content with the 'peace' [among men] that you describe - and are confident of.

I don't believe that happy and content (existentially) has as much to do with it as it being much harder to embroil the world in mega wars.

Dictatorships and convoluted defense treaties that automatically bring nations into a colossal battlefields appear to fading into history (hopefully).

Even the latest attempt (the attempted world Islamist jihad) is largely contained, with their only strategy being 'asymmetric' war, which depends on its enemies' over-reaction. This they almost achieved with 9/11.

But is it even imaginable that a British Prime Minister would have been publicly vilified and subjected to public scrutiny (in the way Tony Blair was for his military adventurism in the 19th/early 20th century)? Its true, though, that the US is more apprehensive about vilifying / indicting their head of state for military overreach / adventurism (with Australia following that model and 'pardoning' its head of government over our over-reaction).

Also, the 19th/early 20th century wars were predicated on (now bankrupt) idealism. Would we join a mega-war so readily for idealism in the 21st century?

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Bobby.

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #106 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:

angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell.

All this is the product of medieval superstition yet
there are still many people who believe it today.

JL,
I hope one day you join us & the world will live as one.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #107 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

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muso

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #108 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:26am

Yadda wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 1:22am:

muso,

Is your argument that today, we live in a world where the principles of truth and justice are respected by men ?

Is your argument that today, we live in a world where the principles of truth and justice are defended by men ?

No. "My" argument is simply that in proportion to the total world population we are killing fewer people through warfare.

NorthofNorth probably has posted a good reason for this.

If you look back 2000 years ago to the time of the Romans, the two Punic wars alone, obliterated 1.3 million people. People were expected to be part of the Roman army.

Then in China about the same time, the population of China dropped from 68 million to 15.1 million in less than 30 years.

War is no longer the trade of the vast majority of people.

The vast majority of people in the world can ply an existence without being conscripted into the army and hacked to pieces on the battle field.

We are living in more peaceful times. It's borne out by facts and figures.

When we get back to truth and justice, the vast majority of people today probably do espouse those values, but that's not the basis of the argument.

But are we happier? Again, probably.
Quote:

[clop clop clop]

Who's that, then?

CART MASTER: I dunno. Must be a king.

CUSTOMER: Why?

CART MASTER: He hasn't got sh1t all over him.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:38am by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #109 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:27am

Does anyone really believe that Obama and Abbott believe in a God? They torture and kill people.

Actor Chris O'Dowd says religion is 'unacceptable'

Actor Chris O'Dowd thinks following a religion will eventually become as offensive and unacceptable as racism.

Now he says religious doctrine is halting human progress and brands it "a weird cult".
He also thinks US president Barack Obama had to overstate his Christian faith in order to get to the White House.
Advertisement
O'Dowd has told Britain's GQ magazine: "For most of my life, I've been, 'Hey, I'm not into it, but I respect your right to believe whatever you want'. But as time goes on, weirdly, I'm growing less liberal. I'm more like, 'No, religion is ruining the world, you need to stop!'.
"There's going to be a turning point where it's going to be like racism. You know, 'You're not allowed to say that weird s**t! It's mad! And you're making everybody crazy!'
"And you know, now America can't have a president that doesn't say he believes in God. So we're f**ked! Like, they f**ked everything!
"You wanna go and live in your weird cult and talk about a man who lives in a cloud, you do that, but don't. I mean, you really think that Barack Obama believes in God? No way!"

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity/actor-chris-odowd-says-religion-is-unacceptable-20140308-34ded.html#ixzz2vUHTDXoA

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Bobby.

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #110 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #111 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

You're confusing solemn ritual with frank blind belief.

The Vatican particularly is highly sceptical (if not harbouring outright disbelief) in divine miracles. The devil is never mentioned (except perhaps metaphorically). Sainthood in the Catholic Church is more akin to awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross for services rendered to humanity.

Its really only the weird and creepy American evangelical neo-Christianity that maintains a 14th century belief in these things.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Is Christian religion dying out? Reply #112 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:51am Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:27am: Does anyone really believe that Obama believe in a God? Extremely unlikely. What he says as an American head of state regarding god is what he must say, not, I'd bet, what be truly believes.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #113 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 11:01am

muso wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

But are we happier? Again, probably.

This, apparently, was Lenin's great disappointment at the turn of the 20th century... The working class did not rise up against their aristocratic / bourgeois overlords (as Marx had predicted)... Such that Lenin determined that if the eruption of revolution won't come from the soul of the working class, then he will bring it to them by force.

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Bobby.

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #114 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 11:13am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

You're confusing solemn ritual with frank blind belief.

The Vatican particularly is highly sceptical (if not harbouring outright disbelief) in divine miracles. The devil is never mentioned (except perhaps metaphorically). Sainthood in the Catholic Church is more akin to awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross for services rendered to humanity.

Its really only the weird and creepy American evangelical neo-Christianity that maintains a 14th century belief in these things.

Sorry for the truth -

the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #115 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 11:14am

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 4:00pm:

I've seen them stop their cars in Sydney traffic, and get out and start praying on the road.

Praying they don't get hit by a bus, I assume.

No.

Praying that as taxi drivers they'll get a drunk young Aussie female to take home at 2 in the morning ...

Their prayers are often answered.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #116 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 11:13am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

You're confusing solemn ritual with frank blind belief.

The Vatican particularly is highly sceptical (if not harbouring outright disbelief) in divine miracles. The devil is never mentioned (except perhaps metaphorically). Sainthood in the Catholic Church is more akin to awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross for services rendered to humanity.

Its really only the weird and creepy American evangelical neo-Christianity that maintains a 14th century belief in these things.

Sorry for the truth -

the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

There's no doubt that many Christians do believe that the devil frankly exists (i.e. is not just a metaphor for psychiatric conditions and predilections).

There's no doubt that nearly everybody (if not everybody) harbours a vestige of superstition... Touching wood, wearing lucky charms, chanting mantras, 'sending it out to the universe' et al... This phenomenon, I believe, will be part of the human condition forever...

Like the old Virgil quote - "They can because they think they can"... The challenge for orthodox religions and the new ones (New Age etc) is: How to make them think they can.

The most convenient and most readily accepted doctrine for those who seek answers to intractable personality disorders or 'bad luck' is that of externalising fault.

Where clerics deploy the concept of 'the enemy' as the cause of the sufferers' 'evil deeds' it is done (without cynicism) in the hopes of assisting the suffering and 'repentant' sinner to transcend his own personality by extricating him from guilt. This, in itself, is not an evil, nor does it necessarily require the confessor to actually believe in devils and demons.

But, yes, there is the risk that those 'healed' by such tactics (or believers in the frank existence of the devil) can find their personality issues manifest in other ways (like taking it on themselves to 'fight the devil' by causing harm to those they have determined are the 'devil incarnate' - as seen within American evangelism).

They can because they think they can... How, in the secular world, can we manifest Virgil's observation? How do we learn to believe we can without externalisation?

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Yadda

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #117 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:19pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

You're confusing solemn ritual with frank blind belief.

The Vatican particularly is highly sceptical (if not harbouring outright disbelief) in divine miracles. The devil is never mentioned (except perhaps metaphorically).

Sainthood in the Catholic Church is more akin to awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross for services rendered to humanity.

Its really only the weird and creepy American evangelical neo-Christianity that maintains a 14th century belief in these things.

LOL

The praise of men [and of the catholic church], is worthy indeed!

That is what we are here for, to learn how to impress [and be envied by] our fellow men and women.

Who has the biggest house and the most desirable wife, on your street! Grin

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #118 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:25pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

LOL

The praise of men [and of the catholic church], is worthy indeed!

That is what we are here for, to learn how to impress [and be envied by] our fellow men and women.

Who has the biggest house and the most desirable wife, on your street! Grin

We are, after all, akin to primates in that we can harbour envy for the wellbeing and good fortune of others.

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Bobby.

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Re: Is Christian religion dying out?
Reply #119 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:31pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 11:13am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 10:18am:

It's hard to believe that intelligent people at the head of the church still believe in:
angels, devils, satans, witches, goblins, leprechauns, elfs
ghosts, heaven & hell

Are you so sure of that. The Catholic Church has been playing that down for decades. Most (if not all ) western Anglican clerics (senior and junior) are avowed agnostics.

Rubbish - the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

e.g. turning cracker biscuits into the body of Christ & wine into his blood -
the list goes on & on.

It's all insane & it's time for the world to wake up.

P.S. - I forgot to mention miracles.

You're confusing solemn ritual with frank blind belief.

The Vatican particularly is highly sceptical (if not harbouring outright disbelief) in divine miracles. The devil is never mentioned (except perhaps metaphorically). Sainthood in the Catholic Church is more akin to awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross for services rendered to humanity.

Its really only the weird and creepy American evangelical neo-Christianity that maintains a 14th century belief in these things.

Sorry for the truth -

the Pope & his followers believe all that nonsense & a whole lot more.

There's no doubt that many Christians do believe that the devil frankly exists (i.e. is not just a metaphor for psychiatric conditions and predilections).

There's no doubt that nearly everybody (if not everybody) harbours a vestige of superstition... Touching wood, wearing lucky charms, chanting mantras, 'sending it out to the universe' et al... This phenomenon, I believe, will be part of the human condition forever...

Like the old Virgil quote - "They can because they think they can"... The challenge for orthodox religions and the new ones (New Age etc) is: How to make them think they can.

The most convenient and most readily accepted doctrine for those who seek answers to intractable personality disorders or 'bad luck' is that of externalising fault.

Where clerics deploy the concept of 'the enemy' as the cause of the sufferers' 'evil deeds' it is done (without cynicism) in the hopes of assisting the suffering and 'repentant' sinner to transcend his own personality by extricating him from guilt. This, in itself, is not an evil, nor does it necessarily require the confessor to actually believe in devils and demons.

But, yes, there is the risk that those 'healed' by such tactics (or believers in the frank existence of the devil) can find their personality issues manifest in other ways (like taking it on themselves to 'fight the devil' by causing harm to those they have determined are the 'devil incarnate' - as seen within American evangelism).

They can because they think they can... How, in the secular world, can we manifest Virgil's observation? How do we learn to believe we can without externalisation?

Religion is similar to a computer virus:

It's passed down to following generations by brain washing children.

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