freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 8:58am:


Common sense certainly does suffice in demonstrating that you don't have a leg to stand on in claiming that 2/3rds of the population "oppose" muslims enacting capital punishment laws for muslims.

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I just gave you a survey in which Chinese and Indian Malaysians say they consider hudud "fair to all".

Hudud has only ever been proposed as applicable to Malays only. It is not a ridiculous proposition that non-muslims by and large do not oppose Malays enacting laws for Malays that won't affect them, and the survey I quoted strongly suggests this.

There is *NO* evidence that non-muslim Malaysians overwhelmingly object to Malays enacting laws to kill each other (ie capital punishment that only applies to muslims). And the idea that 100% of them actively "oppose" it (the only way to get your 2/3rds) to the extent that it makes enacting the laws impossible, is utterly baseless and just plain stupid.

Just face it, you f*cked up in claiming that 2/3rds of the entire population oppose it, so lets just move on.

WTF FD?

You've said some stupid things before, but I never really thought you could be this irrational.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 9:40am:


Say what FD? Something that is completely baseless? I'm merely asking for evidence that 100% of non-muslim Malaysians oppose muslims enacting capital punishment laws that apply only to muslims. You have none.

Is it really so incomprehensible to you that non-muslims would not object to muslims applying capital offense laws that apply only to muslims?

You are flailing - badly. And its quite sad to watch to be perfectly honest.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 9:55am:


No, I want proof for a claim you have not a shred of evidence for. Is it that hard to understand? Once more with feeling: what proof is there to support your claim that 100% of non-muslim Malaysians oppose muslims subjecting themselves (and only themselves) to hudud laws?

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 9:55am:


For the third time, not many - according to the survey.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 9:55am:


Of course. They were asked if hudud laws could be "fair to all", and more than 80% responded yes (most) or not sure. Apostasy laws are part and parcel of hudud.

Do you understand yet that hudud has only ever been proposed as something that will only apply to muslims?

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:


You claimed 2/3rds of Malaysians oppose introducing laws for stoning and death for apostasy. That would require opposition from virtually 100% of the non-muslim population. All I ask for is one shred of evidence for this, thats a little more than a statement that begins with "take an honest guess..." Don't make this unnecessary complex FD.

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 12:37pm:


Not PAS. The survey was conducted in specific relation to PAS's policy on hudud - if you bothered to read the article I linked.

Don't try and obfuscate here FD, its pathetic. You tried to claim that the non-muslims have set up an effective democratic bloc against the majority of Malays who supposedly wish to introduce stoning and execution for apostasy. You have no shred of evidence to support this, and the only evidence we have strongly suggests the non-muslims overwhelmingly have no problem with Malays implementing hudud - if they wished. Yet apparently they don't - as I pointed out from the very beginning. Most Malays vote for anti-hudud parties.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:



From page 1:

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Gandalf, do you still think that laws to execute apostates only apply to Muslims? Why are you afraid to answer this question?

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So, not what you claimed I said eh? Do you need me to explain the difference?

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I am not going to look for proof of something you are not prepared to disagree with. What you are suggesting is stupid, which is why you are afraid to come out and say it. You demand proof from me, but from you we cannot even get an opinion, or even a guess. Just endless spin and misrepresentation.

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So you won't have trouble showing the percentage of non-Muslims who are in favour of their policy of Muslims killing people in the name of Islam?

Let me guess, a Muslim political party that supports killing apostates conducted a survey to show that Malaysians support their policy, but failed to actually ask if they support killing apostates. Then all the other Muslims swallowed whatever BS the Muslim political party fed them. Is that about it Gandalf?

BTW, is this survey of yours another example of "no serious debate" in Malaysia on the issue?

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Duh. That's how democracy works Gandalf. It makes a lot more sense than your assertion that it is because the minority who support these laws lack motivation.

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The difference here Gandalf is that I have a survey that actually shows that.

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All the evidence suggests is the lengths you will go to to misrepresent that facts and discard common sense. For example right here we have an example of you changing the topic.