Quote:"expecting" them to vote on this issue signifies political motivation wouldn't you say? Thats what I disagree with.
You think they would abstain?
Quote:Saying they agree with a hypothetical concept in a meaningless, consequence-free survey is a long way from actually deciding to vote in favour of it becoming a reality if ever given the chance.
No it isn't. It is one step away, and that one step is actually getting the chance to vote on it. Obviously they would currently lose in Malaysia, but in other Muslim countries they can and do win.
Such survey's are never consequence-free in a democracy. Political parties use them to gauge and respond to the views of the people. The only reason you can pretend it is in this case is because it is still a minority issue.
Quote:motivation and interest in what though? You can't even make an educated guess as to what "issues" Malaysians had in mind when they voted for PAS. So merely saying this "indicates a high level of motivation and interest" is completely meaningless and worse than useless.
The PAS is an Islamist party. I would expect they have an interest in political Islamism - of a more extreme kind than what they already have. Given they already have lost of backwards laws, it is not a good sign.
Quote:I agree. The point is though, an election in which the leading muslim candidates are tripping over themselves to promote their anti-hudud credentials, and even the one pro-hudud party has to quietly pretend that the issue is not really there - is not exactly the sort of election environment you would expect if muslims really do want these laws enacted.
It is exactly what you would expect on such an issue if only 1/3 of the population support it.
Quote:Irrespective of all the intricacies of the Malaysian system, you would still expect there to be political capital on this issue for the parties that primarily stand for muslims - and that these parties would attempt to exploit this capital.
That's what PAS is, and that's what PAS is doing. The two "major" parties (coalitions in Malaysia) do not stand for Muslims. They stand for the majority of Malaysians and are actively seeking to get the majority of the vote. You cannot expect that they would side with the Muslim extremists on an issue that splits the Muslim community nearly down the middle, given that roughly 40% of the population is non-Muslim. You would expect both major coalitions to side with the 2/3 who oppose the laws, because any other stance would guarantee that they can not gain power. This is what you fail to understand about representative democracy. You cannot take an obviously minority stance on a contentious issue and expect to gain power.
Quote:Personally, I prefer to exercise caution when judging an entire group of people to be "little Hitler's" and demonize them based solely on one survey in which they are asked to answer "yes" or "no" to a hypothetical.
It is what they think Gandalf. You of all people should appreciate the chance for Muslims to speak for themselves rather than have other people say what they think.
Quote:I think its fair to judge them on their actual behaviour - and quite frankly it is not the behaviour of "little Hitler's" to live in harmony with their non-muslim neighbours
Malaysia has rehabilitation camps for apostates. It has all sorts of nasty laws designed to promote Islam. Most people call that oppression, not harmony. Sure they aren't killing each other, but the Muslims aren't exactly in a position to do that - at least not yet. They are probably more than happy to exploit the dmoinant position they have and let the machinations of state opression grind on until they can be more assertive.
Every time someone else suggests we judge Muslims by their behaviour, you and the other apologists whine that we cannot possibly judge Muslims by the actions of the governments or the specific individuals. Yet here we have the opportunity to judge Muslims by what they actually think, and you immediately backflip. It seems that whatever the issue or action, Muslims and Islam cannot possibly be judged by it. There is an excuse for everything, even when the majority of Muslims openly admit that they support a barbaric law that comes straight from the heart of Islam.
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