Australian Politics Forum - ASIO actions against islamic security concerns

Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #120 - Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:34pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:57pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

I don't know why you insist on Rupert Murdoch's Bible

He owns NIV right?

Why avoid the subject of it being a profitable corrupt pop-Bible - that corrupted that verse to being the opposite of what it says - by dwelling on who profits from it?
https://www.google.com/#q=rupert+murdoch+bought+the+NIV

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:57pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

restoration of Jews to their land, and restoration of their strength and power:

No I'm not ignoring it. It truly is uncanny the way the dates line up.

And unlike Islam, in which not a single witness ever heard Muhammad receive a single "revelation", and never witnessed such as his magic flying donkey-mule, scripture often offers two or more witnesses.

Another of Daniel's dreams begins:
(KJV) Daniel 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, [and] told the sum of the matters.

Supportable dating for the first year of Belshazzar is 553-552 BC

Later in this dream we read:
(KJV) Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand
until
a time and times and the dividing of time.

2500 - 552 = 1948 (553 adding a "zero year") The restoration of the Jews to their covenant land, declaring an independent Israel. End of the Jews being given into his (Satan through gentile oppressors) hand and being scattered among the "wilderness" of the nations.

Two parallel problems that span 2500 years that pin the dates right to the year, that are perfectly supported textually, as well as through the historical matter of fact of Jews being restored to power over their covenant land
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Again Isaac Newton: "Daniel was commanded to shut up and seal, till the time of the end. Daniel sealed it until the time of the end; {Daniel 12:4, 9} and until that time comes, the Lamb is opening the seals:....
All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: .... But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many." (Part II. Observations Upon the Apocalypse of St. John. Chap 1)
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm#reformers_time_of_end

Yahweh's covenant people restored to their covenant land, even while many are unfaithful and in unbelief, restored not for their sakes but for the sake of Yahweh's Holy name.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_prophecy.htm

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:57pm:

I'm just curious as to why the rest of the prophecy does not, as you are again failing to recognise that the prophecy is incomplete, as it clearly states that after time, time and a half, the dead will rise and be judged.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

I recommend you go on vacation to Syria, Iran, Nigeria or Somalia.

Oh look, something completely irrelevant to the discussion of biblical prophecy. here is something equally as irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill

Not at all irrelevant. My effort was to point out that great tribulation is not reserved for some 7-year period yet in our future, nor was it all over and done with in the 1st century with Nero.

That's why I asked which eschatology your former "church" held. Was it futurism or preterism?

And why do you continue to ignore the Psalms 22 prophecy of Jesus' crucifixion, in post after post?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

That is just one prophecy, when estimates suggest that 1/4 of the Bible is prophecy, with much of it having been fulfilled. So we haven't even scratched the surface.

You are ignoring the evidence, because of your faith in DISbelief. Why not try actively and honestly actually considering all of the evidence with an open mind instead?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:44pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #121 - Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:44pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Why avoid the subject of it being a profitable corrupt pop-Bible, by dwelling on who makes the money?

Your ignorance is nothing short of astounding Pete. My quote before which you attributed to as the NIV twice now was from the NKJ Bible, not the NIV

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

"Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

"Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished."

Go and check if you like, because you clearly didn't to begin with.

THIS is the NIV version

Quote:

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.[b] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

I wonder why you even care who publishes the different versions seeing you can't tell the difference

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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gizmo_2655

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #122 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:22am

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:40am:

Oh, and the weeks prophecy is incredibly vague by the way, and massively open to interpretation.

What does any "weeks" prophecy have to do with the subject of the restoration of Jews to their land, as detailed in the post at the link I provided?

For those in here that are unfamiliar, the following may be the prophetic math problem, to which he refers.
http://theism.net/article/17

Sorry, you were mentioning it before like some of silver bullet, I was going to reply to it then but fell asleep

I find the restoration of Jews to their land, detailed in the post you keep ignoring, to be a much more obvious and impressive fulfillment of prophecy. Let alone Daniel's math pinning the dates of 1948 and 1967.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

And for other forum members, the more obvious fulfillment of prophecy like the coming of the prophesied Messiah, and Jesus' crucifixion in old Testament prophecy and such, that should be givens to Stratos:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

Actually Pete, the restoration doesn't actually fit with the original OT Jewish prophecy and won't work as a sign.

For it to work, the Messiah would have to have physically LEAD the people of Israel back to the Promised Land. That's why so many of the ultra-orthodox Jews are unhappy with the existence of modern Israel.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #123 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:44pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Why avoid the subject of it being a profitable corrupt pop-Bible, by dwelling on who makes the money?

Your ignorance is nothing short of astounding Pete.

Why don't you try growing up a little?

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:44pm:

My quote before which you attributed to as the NIV twice now was from the NKJ Bible, not the NIV

Have you noticed how Satan keeps dragging you off into irrelevancy, in order to run and hide from the truth of the subject? First it was the number of Christians being martyred around the world every year, which is as irrelevant as the number of Jews that were murdered in the holocaust, having anything to do with THE REASON they were murdered - which is hatred of Jews.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm#hitler_and_the_m...

Now you ignore the stunning evidence that has been presented to you through prophecy, to argue in favor of corrupt pop-Bible versions.

But the argument is the same regarding ALL CORRUPT POP-MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS from which men profit. Your post simply illustrates that the NKJV is just as corrupt as the NIV in regard to the verse in question. Arguing as if my lapse in memory regarding WHICH CORRUPT VERSION you quoted was relevant, when they are BOTH CORRUPT POP-BIBLE VERSIONS.

Perhaps this is a new subject to you, and so you presumed I am the only critic of corrupt pop-bible versions, but I am not. I wonder if your choice of Bible versions could be a contributing factor to your having abandoned Jesus? No shortage would say so.
https://www.google.com/#q=corrupt+modern+bible+versions

That's why a person has to put some effort into discernment and seeking out the truth, particularly in these times in which we find ourselves, since what is going on is just as prophesied:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm

That's why I included the KJV as well as the Tanach.
Here's a Hebrew/English interlinear. It doesn't copy and paste very well so you will have to visit the link. If you don't want to click on it but prefer to keep running and hiding from truth, suffice it to say that not surprisingly, it supports the KJV and the Tanach.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 11:44pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

"Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”

Stratos wrote on Jan 8^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

"Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered
, all these things shall be finished."

Go and check if you like, because you clearly didn't to begin with.

THIS is the NIV version

Quote:

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken
, all these things will be completed.”

I wonder why you even care who publishes the different versions seeing you can't tell the difference

It obviously doesn't matter who publishes these two corrupt pop-versions, because there is essentially no difference between the corruption of the NKJV and the corruption of the NIV regarding that verse, as the enlarged bold font demonstrates. It boils down to modern men, copying the corrupt machinations of other modern men, while trying to change it enough to avoid being sued for copyright infringement.

It's important for you to see how Satan has yet again dragged you off on yet another irrelevant and unimportant tangent, in your continuing effort to run and hide from the stunning mathematical, textual and historical fulfillment of prophecy I have presented, to instead put your effort into yet another foolish and irrelevant gotcha. Why not focus in the subjects of the posts instead?
Why not start with the prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ in Psalms that you keep making excuses, for and to yourself, to ignore?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2014 at 2:52am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #124 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 1:20am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:22am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:40am:

Oh, and the weeks prophecy is incredibly vague by the way, and massively open to interpretation.

What does any "weeks" prophecy have to do with the subject of the restoration of Jews to their land, as detailed in the post at the link I provided?

For those in here that are unfamiliar, the following may be the prophetic math problem, to which he refers.
http://theism.net/article/17

Sorry, you were mentioning it before like some of silver bullet, I was going to reply to it then but fell asleep

I find the restoration of Jews to their land, detailed in the post you keep ignoring, to be a much more obvious and impressive fulfillment of prophecy. Let alone Daniel's math pinning the dates of 1948 and 1967.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

And for other forum members, the more obvious fulfillment of prophecy like the coming of the prophesied Messiah, and Jesus' crucifixion in old Testament prophecy and such, that should be givens to Stratos:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

Actually Pete, the restoration doesn't actually fit with the original OT Jewish prophecy and won't work as a sign.

For it to work, the Messiah would have to have physically LEAD the people of Israel back to the Promised Land. That's why so many of the ultra-orthodox Jews are unhappy with the existence of modern Israel.

Hi gizmo. I am well aware of self-proclaimed "orthodox" anti-Zionist Jewish cults, like the Neturei Karta, as I minister to Muslims who love to trot them out. They fruit the anti-Zionist tree along with the rest of the fruit of the anti-Zionist tree.

Insisting on their tradition and interpretation, while divorcing themselves from objective reality, which even blinds them to their arch enemy.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_and_jews.htm

Not that dissimilar to the "church" being blinded to the enemy through pop-eschatology that began to come into vogue in the 19th century:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muhammad_islam_in_bible_prophecy.htm#the_con...

Just as it was in the 1st century when the tradition of the Pharisees, caused them believe their Messiah would come as a mighty and powerful conquering king, that in turn caused them to reject Jesus as their Messiah in spite of all of His miracles and much more. And even today, in spite of the the Psalms prophecy at the link you quoted, and many other Messianic prophesies. Though many have come to Christ as groups like "Jews for Jesus" attest. Many through prophesies like Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/isaiah_53.htm

Yet here we are today, with 1/3 of the world's population believing Christ was crucified, died, and was resurrected from the dead. Recognizing Jesus as the King of Kings. And that is just the number of self-proclaimed Christians (many of whom have not been born again), let alone that 1/3 portion of mankind doesn't take into account, the number of people that believe the Gospel, but recognize they are unrepentant, and thus are honest enough with themselves to not proclaim themselves to be Christian.

While 2/10 of 1% of the world's population is composed of Jews, and that number even includes atheist, agnostic, as well as faithful Jews. Yet there they are today, ruling and reigning in Israel just as prophesied, with that tiny strip of land emerging from the utter desolation of 200 years ago, to becoming one of the most prosperous and technologically advanced economies, and a geopolitical focus of the world.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_prophecy.htm

The Messiah did indeed build His temple in three days, while He ushered in His kingdom in the 1st century, and His people are in His kingdom unto today.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

It would help me with my responses to you if I knew whether you were a Muslim or Christian, or a faithful Jew or some other religion, or atheist or agnostic. And if Christian, which eschatology your church ascribes to (if you don't know, then perhaps which denomination would help).
http://www.christianeschatology.com/

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2014 at 3:38am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #125 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 7:45am

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

First it was the number of Christians being martyred around the world every year

Oh yes, sorry, I should just assume assume everything you say is correct regardless of whatever the truth actually happens to be. Literally everything about your original claim was factually wrong, and I'm glad you have decided to not use lies to try and support that argument anymore.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

Now you ignore the stunning evidence that has been presented to you through prophecy, to argue in favor of corrupt pop-Bible versions.

No no, you said Murdoch. I may be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that Murdoch doesn't publish the NKJ version. But apparently you have some kind of issue with that too? Surely Gideons are doing Satan's work too by distributing this "Bible" for free worldwide Roll Eyes

Funnily enough, it wouldn't matter which edition I was using, for the all say the same thing.

To Daneil- dead men gonna rise and be judged yo
Daniel- Wow really? when is this going to be finished?
To Daneil- Time, time and a half

So why have the dead not risen as per the prophecy? Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

That's why I included the KJV as well as the Tanach.
Here's a Hebrew/English interlinear. It doesn't copy and paste very well so you will have to visit the link

Interesting link. Still supports my argument that as Daniel clearly is asking when the END of the prophecy is, that the dead should ahve risen and been judged by now

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #126 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

Why not start with the prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ in Psalms that you keep making excuses, for and to yourself, to ignore?

I have said that it does seem uncannily like the crucifixion of Jesus, but there is a lot of it that does not seem to quite fit, or can be easily explained in a way that does NOT involve the crucifixion of Jesus

For starters, it does mention crucifixion specifically, but piercing hands and feet. I'm sure as long as there have been nails and hammers humans have been doing this to each other.

Secondly, the writers of the New Testament would have been aware of these verses and could easily have put in the other details in, such as the casting of lots etc could have been added quite easily into the account during the 50 or so years between Jesus' death and the writing down of the Gospels.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Yadda

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #127 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

Why not start with the prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ in Psalms that you keep making excuses, for and to yourself, to ignore?

I have said that it does seem uncannily like the crucifixion of Jesus, but there is a lot of it that does not seem to quite fit, or can be easily explained in a way that does NOT involve the crucifixion of Jesus

For starters, it does mention crucifixion specifically, but piercing hands and feet. I'm sure as long as there have been nails and hammers humans have been doing this to each other.

Secondly, the writers of the New Testament would have been aware of these verses and could easily have put in the other details in, such as the casting of lots etc could have been added quite easily into the account during the 50 or so years between Jesus' death and the writing down of the Gospels.

Stratos,

You are right to be sceptical. Tongue

And in your scepticism, that which is within your own heart is rejecting the spirit of God.

Your own heart is [effectively] 'filtering' you out, of God's spiritual kingdom of righteousness.

Why so ?

Because [like so many others] you refuse to acknowledge your need to repent.

You, yourself, are rejecting the spirit of God.

Psalms 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

+++

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Our salvation rests upon our belief that Jesus was crucified, died, and after 3 days, and 3 nights, Jesus was revived by God.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

I believe it.

I am just a fool, who trusts in God's righteousness.

I am happy to be a fool.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns Reply #128 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 11:09am heed the word stratos...
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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #129 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 11:18am

Yadda wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Our salvation rests upon our belief that Jesus was crucified, died, and after 3 days, and 3 nights, Jesus was revived by God.

I know all this Yadda, and truly did used to believe it. The cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy within the church, every church I'd attended, caught up with me over some time and I decided to leave. It wasn't easy, as it had been the foundation of my life for quite some time and I had developed many relationships, relationships that are now all but gone because I asked too many questions.

Nice post though Yadda, thanks

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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gizmo_2655

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #130 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:00pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 1:20am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:22am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 7^th, 2014 at 8:40am:

Oh, and the weeks prophecy is incredibly vague by the way, and massively open to interpretation.

What does any "weeks" prophecy have to do with the subject of the restoration of Jews to their land, as detailed in the post at the link I provided?

For those in here that are unfamiliar, the following may be the prophetic math problem, to which he refers.
http://theism.net/article/17

Sorry, you were mentioning it before like some of silver bullet, I was going to reply to it then but fell asleep

I find the restoration of Jews to their land, detailed in the post you keep ignoring, to be a much more obvious and impressive fulfillment of prophecy. Let alone Daniel's math pinning the dates of 1948 and 1967.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

And for other forum members, the more obvious fulfillment of prophecy like the coming of the prophesied Messiah, and Jesus' crucifixion in old Testament prophecy and such, that should be givens to Stratos:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

Actually Pete, the restoration doesn't actually fit with the original OT Jewish prophecy and won't work as a sign.

For it to work, the Messiah would have to have physically LEAD the people of Israel back to the Promised Land. That's why so many of the ultra-orthodox Jews are unhappy with the existence of modern Israel.

Hi gizmo. I am well aware of self-proclaimed "orthodox" anti-Zionist Jewish cults, like the Neturei Karta, as I minister to Muslims who love to trot them out. They fruit the anti-Zionist tree along with the rest of the fruit of the anti-Zionist tree.

Insisting on their tradition and interpretation, while divorcing themselves from objective reality, which even blinds them to their arch enemy.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_and_jews.htm

Not that dissimilar to the "church" being blinded to the enemy through pop-eschatology that began to come into vogue in the 19th century:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muhammad_islam_in_bible_prophecy.htm#the_con...

Just as it was in the 1st century when the tradition of the Pharisees, caused them believe their Messiah would come as a mighty and powerful conquering king, that in turn caused them to reject Jesus as their Messiah in spite of all of His miracles and much more. And even today, in spite of the the Psalms prophecy at the link you quoted, and many other Messianic prophesies. Though many have come to Christ as groups like "Jews for Jesus" attest. Many through prophesies like Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/isaiah_53.htm

Yet here we are today, with 1/3 of the world's population believing Christ was crucified, died, and was resurrected from the dead. Recognizing Jesus as the King of Kings. And that is just the number of self-proclaimed Christians (many of whom have not been born again), let alone that 1/3 portion of mankind doesn't take into account, the number of people that believe the Gospel, but recognize they are unrepentant, and thus are honest enough with themselves to not proclaim themselves to be Christian.

While 2/10 of 1% of the world's population is composed of Jews, and that number even includes atheist, agnostic, as well as faithful Jews. Yet there they are today, ruling and reigning in Israel just as prophesied, with that tiny strip of land emerging from the utter desolation of 200 years ago, to becoming one of the most prosperous and technologically advanced economies, and a geopolitical focus of the world.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_prophecy.htm

The Messiah did indeed build His temple in three days, while He ushered in His kingdom in the 1st century, and His people are in His kingdom unto today.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

It would help me with my responses to you if I knew whether you were a Muslim or Christian, or a faithful Jew or some other religion, or atheist or agnostic. And if Christian, which eschatology your church ascribes to (if you don't know, then perhaps which denomination would help).
http://www.christianeschatology.com/

I'm an ex-Catholic atheist.
I think the so called anti-zionist orthodox groups aren't happy because they believe that the League of Nations, in mandating a national Jewish homeland, usurped God's job (leading them home) and think it's an insult to God.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #131 - Jan 9^th, 2014 at 7:31pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

I'm an ex-Catholic atheist.

The Roman Church tends to do that sort of thing to a person. And thank you for the info, that will help me in reply going forward.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

I think the so called anti-zionist orthodox groups aren't happy because they believe that the League of Nations, in mandating a national Jewish homeland, .......

The restoration of Jews to their covenant land began in the early 19th century, long before the League of Nations got involved. After 1200 years of Islamization had rendered Israel an utterly desolate, denuded, desertified, essentially depopulated wasteland.

In "A History of the Jews" Paul Johnson writes on page 321: "Between 1827 and 1839, largely through British efforts, the population of Jerusalem rose from 550 to 5,500 and in all Palestine it topped 10,000 - the real beginning of the Jewish return to the Promised Land. In 1838 Palmerston appointed the first western vice-consul in Jerusalem, W.T. Young, and told him 'to afford protection to the Jews generally'."
http://www.zionismchristian.com/history_of_modern_zionism.htm#desolation_of_isra...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

....... usurped God's job (leading them home) and think it's an insult to God.

While faithful Zionist Jews recognize it as a fulfillment of so much prophecy.
Just as so many Christians also excitedly anticipated through prophecy, centuries before their restoration ever even began.

Thomas Brightman 1562-1607: "The restoring of the Jewes and their callinge to the faith of Christ after the utter overthrow of their three enemies is set forth in livelie colours." "Shall they return to Jerusalem again?" "There is nothing more certain: the prophets do everywhere confirm it and beat upon it."

Isaac Newton: “Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_christianity.htm#christians_on_zionis...

While Daniel pinned their sovereign control over Israel in 1948, and then Jerusalem in 1967 - right to the year - in two mathematical problems that span 2500 years, in perfect parallel:
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2014 at 3:10am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #132 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 3:30am

Yadda wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

Why not start with the prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ in Psalms that you keep making excuses, for and to yourself, to ignore?

I have said that it does seem uncannily like the crucifixion of Jesus, but there is a lot of it that does not seem to quite fit, or can be easily explained in a way that does NOT involve the crucifixion of Jesus

For starters, it does mention crucifixion specifically, but piercing hands and feet. I'm sure as long as there have been nails and hammers humans have been doing this to each other.

Secondly, the writers of the New Testament would have been aware of these verses and could easily have put in the other details in, such as the casting of lots etc could have been added quite easily into the account during the 50 or so years between Jesus' death and the writing down of the Gospels.

Stratos,

You are right to be sceptical. Tongue

And in your scepticism, that which is within your own heart is rejecting the spirit of God.

Your own heart is [effectively] 'filtering' you out, of God's spiritual kingdom of righteousness.

Why so ?

Because [like so many others] you refuse to acknowledge your need to repent.

You, yourself, are rejecting the spirit of God.

Which is why he cannot expect to fully understand.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yadda wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Psalms 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

+++

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Our salvation rests upon our belief that Jesus was crucified, died, and after 3 days, and 3 nights, Jesus was revived by God.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

I believe it.

I am just a fool, who trusts in God's righteousness.

I am happy to be a fool.

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Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #133 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:20am

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

Yadda wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:48am:

Our salvation rests upon our belief that Jesus was crucified, died, and after 3 days, and 3 nights, Jesus was revived by God.

I know all this Yadda, and truly did used to believe it. The cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy within the church, every church I'd attended, caught up with me over some time and I decided to leave.

This is so common in this day and age it brings me to tears, Stratos. But what you are effectively saying, is that you abandoned the truth of the Gospel, because of the behavior and traditions of men, rather than doing the reverse.
I myself am currently without a church home, in my case primarily because of pop-eschatology, that began to come into vogue in the 19th century "church".
I recommend you pick up a copy of "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola, to learn more about what has happened to the ecclesia.

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

It wasn't easy, as it had been the foundation of my life for quite some time and I had developed many relationships, relationships that are now all but gone because I asked too many questions.

And tragically those you asked were likely too into defending their indoctrination, and/or too scripture illiterate or perhaps even embarrassed by their own insecurity, to be able to provide answers.

I was met with the same when I asked eschatology based questions, even of the head of the department, of a mega-church. Their problem is the pop-eschatological scheme that was developed by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
http://www.christianeschatology.com/futurism_dispensationalism.htm

Many have returned to a life in Jesus Christ, after trying a uniform approach to all Bible prophecy, through the traditional historicist approach. When you get some time, why don't you try reading down the web page at the link, until such time as you become disinterested:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

Nice post though Yadda, thanks

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2014 at 6:29am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #134 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 12:55am:

Why not start with the prophecy of the crucifixion of Christ in Psalms that you keep making excuses, for and to yourself, to ignore?

I have said that it does seem uncannily like the crucifixion of Jesus, but there is a lot of it that does not seem to quite fit, or can be easily explained in a way that does NOT involve the crucifixion of Jesus

But you may be forgetting that it included details right down to the parting of His garments and casting lots.

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

For starters, it does mention crucifixion specifically, but piercing hands and feet. I'm sure as long as there have been nails and hammers humans have been doing this to each other.

You can make an empty guess, or see what the historical record reveals. Try - https://www.google.com/#q=history+of+crucifixion

Psalms predated crucifixion by centuries.

Stratos wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

Secondly, the writers of the New Testament would have been aware of these verses and could easily have put in the other details in, such as the casting of lots etc could have been added quite easily into the account during the 50 or so years between Jesus' death and the writing down of the Gospels.

Do you see how much effort you are having to put into DISbelief? Could that be the reason you went so long without responding to that subject in spite of my repeated begging?
Even though the historical record confirms that Jesus was indeed crucified, you wish to believe that the men that faithfully recorded the Gospel lied, to embellish it? That they were somehow all involved in a massive plot to all tell the same lie?
Remember you are talking about men that were willing to die, and indeed were martyred, for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Does it seem reasonable to you that they would have wanted to stand in judgment as liars?
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs010.htm#67

Since about 25% of the Bible is prophecy, with much of it fulfilled, can you see how much more effort - indeed how much more faith - you would have to put into DISbelief?
How do you explain the old testament prophecy that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, for example? What are the mathematical odds against it being just a lucky guess?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2014 at 6:30am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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