Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


Which could have easily been added into the account after the fact.  There is no evidence that the gospels would have been written as a news flash style "breaking news", and is far more likely that they appeared decades after.  It is entirely possible that they could have seen psalm 22 and worked it into their story.

We will never know for sure of course, but my scenario is just as plausible as yours.  Almost all we know about Jesus comes from the Gospels, which are hardly an unbiased source.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


Crucifixion =/= what is described in Psalm 22.  Pierced hands and feet is what it actually says.  Do you seriously think it never occurred to ANYONE in the time after nails were invented that nobody thought to hurt people with them?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


Is this historical record from the gospels or somewhere else?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


Hardly effort Pete.....

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


Well if you starting a fresh belief system then that would make sense wouldn't it?  Coupled with the fact that analysis of the Gospels seems to Indicate that Mark was written first, then the rest draw from another unknown source, it really would only be two stories, not four.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


I wonder if you feel the same about early Islamic martyrs.....  I doubt it

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


I'll take your word for it, but that seems like a lot more than actually is there, assuming you are referring to predictive prophecy.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 4:39am:


And funnily enough this is only mentioned in two of the four gospels.  And not mentioned in the one that is generally agreed to have been written first.  You seem to like archaeological evidence and the like, so is there any actual evidence to suggest he was born here? 

How about some actual evidence from around the time of his birth?  The census where they were supposed to return to Bethlehem occurred in the year 6-7 AD as recorded by the historian Josephus

Meanwhile, in making it up land as written according to Matthew, Jesus' birth was during the raign of Herod the Great, who had lost his life in 4AD.

So the Gospels don't even agree with each other, make a clear contradiction in terms of accuracy.  He could not have been born arond the time of the census and in the reign of Herod the (actually pretty not) Great

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


Why didn't you read the post? Or are you saying that the same men that were willing to die, and were martyred, for the testimony of Jesus Christ, would have been desirous to stand in judgment as liars in a giant conspiracy?

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


Why didn't you click on the google search?

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


So you just made the case against yourself that the Gospel witnesses were engaged in a conspiracy and compared notes.

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


But that dating is too late and I don't know anybody that suggests it. the more commonly accepted is 6-8 BC, which helps to explain all of the biblical "40s". (Jesus' age when He was crucified which would have made Him old  enough to to serve in the temple, and thus a real threat to the Pharisees.

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


No they didn't all include the same information, which indicates independent authorship and witnessing. Different points of view from different authors, while inspired by God. Exactly and specifically not a co-conspiracy as you repeatedly suggest, while contradicting  yourself.

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:22am:


The world is exactly as the Bible says it is supposed to be:

Jhn 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jhn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:22am:


Quick Google and it looks like they are AoG. If you were exposed to Pentecostalism you could be housing some unclean spirits as Pentecostals tend to be negligent in "trying" the spirits. That could explain your seeming to surge from a slightly repentant attitude to one of open rebellion. A good free online book that can help with this subject is "Bondage Breaker"  by Neil Anderson.
http://selfdefinition.org/hearing-voices/Neil-T-Anderson-The-Bondage-Breaker.pdf

Back to the subject, the AoG is futurist, which the U.S. mega church I referenced, is as well. If you had read the post you would have seen that is why I do not presently have a "church" "home".
While I'm sure I would be welcomed at Hillsong, there is no question that the tradition of historicism through which I understand New Testament prophecy was fulfilled (as 1800 years of Christian era church and Reformers did before me) would not be welcome there, because they follow John Nelson Darby and his "7-year tribulation", "pre-trib" "rapture", rebuilt temple, etc. etc.
http://www.christianeschatology.com/futurism_dispensationalism.htm#history_of_fu...

I've done what I could for you my friend. The rest is between you and Jesus. All I could expect to accomplish by continuing is to further harden your heart.
But I do wish you would bookmark the page at the following link, and look it over when you get a chance, if you have never considered New Testament prophecy within the ecclesia tradition of historism, of those great men of God of the Reformation, like Matthew Henry and Isaac Newton:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm

Stratos wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:15am:


Don't think that would help any Stratos, there are records from the various Roman Census' around that era, but with so little information in the Bible about Joseph and Mary you'd never be able to pick out which of the (possibly) hundreds of josephs is the right one.

Stratos wrote on Jan 11^th, 2014 at 8:25am:


That's not generally accepted dating. Let alone that it would mean that Christ finished His ministry and was crucified by about 25 years of age. Even the Pope recently admitted that Christ was born several centuries before our first century. The next prior census takes to about 8-7 BC which would have made Jesus a real threat to the temple culture. Also may suggest why there are so many 40 "types' in scripture.

If you have an interest one scholar's exploration of this, it starts on page 10 of this PDF (takes a little while to load as there are a lot of images).
http://www.christianeschatology.com/sg1.pdf

Stratos wrote on Jan 11^th, 2014 at 9:54am:


Scholars and historians generally try to gain an understanding from as much information as is available. That's why the generally accepted dating of Christ's birth is several centuries before the 1st century. But even after seeing Christ's crucifixion in prophecy centuries before  the event, and fulfilled prophecy like the restoration of Jews to their land in 1948 and their city in 1967 as pinned right to  the year by Daniel in two parallel problems that span  2500 years, you prefer to put your effort into DISbelief.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

Did you ever wonder why only about 4% of the U.S. is smart enough to believe there is no God?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:25am:


I'm not actually an Atheist.  Not that this has anything to do with anything.  Many countries that have a high population of people who don't consider religion important have very successful education systems, more so than America or Australia.

Finland is the envy of everywhere in terms of a well oiled educating machine, and yet almost 70% of them said that religion is not an important part of their daily life.