Australian Politics Forum - ASIO actions against islamic security concerns

Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #150 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

Did you ever wonder why only about 4% of the U.S. is smart enough to believe there is no God?

I'm not actually an Atheist.

As far as I knew you were a self-proclaimed agnostic. Kinda like a socialist not realizing he is, ultimately, a communist.

So then you believe in God?
But you just reject the God of Jews and Christians as revealed through all of His prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record to mankind, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years for.................a god of your own creation perhaps?
Or maybe to follow a guy named Buddha?

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:58pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #151 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 2:50pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

Try reading my post. That's only one piece of evidence

Correct. One piece of evidence you are ignoring.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

I offered the link that listed 3 sources in the footnote. You act like it's my personal opinion. I'm done wasting my time with you.

Your claim: Christ's birth is generally accepted to be several centuries before the first century.

That is not a claim you can back up, there are a multitude of different theories, so many that I would think it would be hard to find any generally accepted date. Also conveniently ignoring that this would mean the gospels would have been written hundreds of years after Jesus' life and death.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

Yet there they are today. 6 million Jews ruling and reigning in Israel. The prophecy has been fulfilled, as so many other prophesies of the return of Jews to their land.

no, HALF the prophecy has been fulfilled. Once again, I'll post it so you can see I'm not making this up:

Quote:

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Highlighted parts relevant to my argument.

You are continuing to ignore that bit. The passage clearly states that one thing will happen, then Daniel asks when the end of it will be. If you accept the dating of 2500 years as the time until the prophecy is fulfilled you are incorrect, as only half the prophecy is even addressed.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

communist Soviets don't get it either

Tell me Pete, where can I find some of these comunist soviets? Rare as hen's teeth. Also conveniently ignoring the large amount of Christians who have a different interpretation of that prophecy than you. Maybe they are the literate ones who see the prophecy is linked to the endtimes and quite clearly see that it isn't fulfilled yet?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:41pm:

white supremacists

What like the KKK? the Christian organisation?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #152 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 2:59pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

Kinda like a socialist not realizing he is, ultimately, a communist

I'm guessing economic theory is not your forte. If anything it is the other way around, that communists are ultimately socialists, because communism is an extreme form of socialism.

They both have some similar ideas, but they are far from the same.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

So then you believe in God?

You do actually know what an agnostic IS don't you? Because to leap from "agnostic" to "believes in God" is pretty weird logic.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #153 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:34pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 2:59pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

Kinda like a socialist not realizing he is, ultimately, a communist

I'm guessing economic theory is not your forte. If anything it is the other way around, that communists are ultimately socialists, because communism is an extreme form of socialism.

I look at it more as communism being the inevitable end result of socialism. Thus making the terms in effect synonymous. It's what happens when socialism parasitizes productive people to the extent that they quit producing, and the misery winds up being spread uniformly, among the former producers and the parasites. Like in the former Soviet Union for example.
And increasingly in the U.S. as evidenced by the still plunging U.S. Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate (hasn't been this low since the 1970s after recovering from the 90% income tax rates of the 1950s and 1960s):

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=CIVPART

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 2:59pm:

They both have some similar ideas, but they are far from the same.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

So then you believe in God?

You do actually know what an agnostic IS don't you? Because to leap from "agnostic" to "believes in God" is pretty weird logic.

Basically self-admitted, and usually self-imposed, ignorance. Like I alluded to earlier, an agnostic is an atheist that has difficulty being honest with himself. Like a socialist refusing to believe the inevitable result of socialism is communism and uniform misery for all - in spite of historical examples to learn from (same goes for Godless States as well).

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:04pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #154 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:57pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:34pm:

I look at it more as communism being the inevitable result of socialism. Thus making the terms in effect synonymous. It's what happens when socialism parasitizes productive people to the extent that they quit producing, and the misery winds up being spread uniformly, among the former producers and the parasites. Like in the former Soviet Union for example.
And increasingly in the U.S. as evidenced by the still plunging U.S. Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate (hasn't been this low since the 1970s)

I suggest that you have a look at the difference. They have similarities, but they are far from the same in terms of both economic structure and ideology.

How do you feel about communism as it was practices by the early church just out of curiosity? Like in Acts, where the Christians essentially practiced a form of communism?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:34pm:

Like I alluded to earlier, an agnostic is an atheist that has difficulty being honest with himself

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 1:48pm:

As far as I knew you were a self-proclaimed agnostic. Kinda like a socialist not realizing he is, ultimately, a communist.

So then you believe in God?

I think you might be a bit confused as your two previous statements about agnosticism are contradictory.

Atheists believe that there is no supernatural influence in the world
Agnostics believe neither that there is, or is definitely not a supernatural influence in the world. A position of skepticism and open-mindedness.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #155 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:07pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

How do you feel about communism as it was practices by the early church just out of curiosity? Like in Acts, where the Christians essentially practiced a form of communism?

The enemy really has broken your mind, hasn't he. Early Christians, like Christians today, donate because we are moved to, through the Spirit.
https://www.mercyships.org/about-mercy-ships/the-result/
Communism - like income taxation - is the theft of the fruit of the labor of productive people in society, who may or may not have no desire to help others, that is confiscated under the false facade of helping others while squandering the funds instead.

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

A position of skepticism and open-mindedness.

That's really entertaining, based on your posts in this forum!
What are you doing up at this hour? Isn't it like 3:00 AM where you are?

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:24pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #156 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:11pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

A position of skepticism and open-mindedness.

That's really entertaining, based on your posts in this forum!
What are you doing up at this hour? Isn't it like 3:00 AM where you are?

10PM.

Also, glass houses lol

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #157 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:28pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:11pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 9:57pm:

A position of skepticism and open-mindedness.

That's really entertaining, based on your posts in this forum!
What are you doing up at this hour? Isn't it like 3:00 AM where you are?

10PM.

Also, glass houses lol

You proclaim yourself to be open-minded, yet have ignored the subject of the fulfilled prophecy of the restoration of Jews to their land, over and over since I first mentioned it back on page 6:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388621936/78#78

How were Christians able to anticipate that, centuries before that restoration began?
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_christianity.htm

If you believe yourself to be open-minded, how do you explain this?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

PS I wasn't done editing the prior post.

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:44pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #158 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:42pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:28pm:

You proclaim yourself to be open-minded, yet have ignored the subject of the fulfilled prophecy of the restoration of Jews to their land, over and over since I first mentioned it in this thread. How were Christians able to anticipate that, centuries before that restoration began?

I'm more interested in the other half of the prophecy that has failed to be fulfilled to be honest.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

The enemy really has broken your mind, hasn't he. Early Christians, like Christians today, donate because we are moved to, through the Spirit.

But that's putting it very mildly wouldn't you say? A few people got killed for holding things back from the church! Almost Stalinist behavior one could say

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #159 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:53pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:42pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:28pm:

You proclaim yourself to be open-minded, yet have ignored the subject of the fulfilled prophecy of the restoration of Jews to their land, over and over since I first mentioned it in this thread. How were Christians able to anticipate that, centuries before that restoration began?

I'm more interested in the other half of the prophecy that has failed to be fulfilled to be honest.

"To be honest?" Do you understand what you are saying? That you are soooo open-minded, that because of your misunderstanding of a passage in prophecy, you must then refuse to believe THE ACTUAL HISTORICAL MATTER OF FACT PHYSICAL REALITY, of Jews being restored to, and ruling and reigning in Israel today. This even though Christians anticipated through prophecy that it would happen, centuries before that restoration ever even began to take place.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_christianity.htm

Let alone that it isn't about a single prophecy, but a body of prophecies:
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_prophecy.htm

What about the other link you ignored?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

Which is all you have done in post after post after post. Ignore, ignore, ignore, as exactly contrasted to a point by point by point that a person that was actually open-minded would have the common courtesy to engage in. Not dissimilar to Datalife (and Muslims) - pure blind faith in DISbelief.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388621936/81#81

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:53pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #160 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:02pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 12^th, 2014 at 10:53pm:

"To be honest?" Do you understand what you are saying? That you are soooo open-minded, that because of your misunderstanding of a passage in prophecy, you must then refuse to believe THE ACTUAL HISTORICAL MATTER OF FACT PHYSICAL REALITY, of Jews being restored to, and ruling and reigning in Israel today. This even though Christians anticipated through prophecy that it would happen, centuries before that restoration ever even began to take place.

Lol, says the guy who ignores half of his own prophecy, just because it didn't happen when it was supposed to.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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moses

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #161 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 3:49pm

I can't see the correlation between Israel being restored in 1948 and Daniel chapter 12

There are 10 Old Testament Prophecies fulfilled in 1948, as I see it:

Jacob’s descendants would regain control of Israel:Amos 9:14-15

Israel would be brought back to life:Ezekiel 37:10-14

Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day:Isaiah 66:7-8

Israel would be re-established as a united nation:Ezekiel 37:21-22

The second Israel would be more impressive than the first:Jeremiah 16:14-15

Ezekiel predicted when Israel would be re-established:Ezekiel 4:3-6

The people of Israel would return to “their own land”:Ezekiel 34:13

God would watch over the people of Israel:Jeremiah 31:10

Israel’s army would be disproportionately powerful:Leviticus 26:3, 7-8

The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored:Deuteronomy 30:3-5

An explanation of each prophecy here

Daniel 12 to me appears to be predicting the last days, sometime in the future.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns Reply #162 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 4:12pm moses wrote on Jan 13^th, 2014 at 3:49pm: Daniel 12 to me appears to be predicting the last days, sometime in the future. I've tried explaining that to him Moses, for several pages now. I'm not quite sure why he is so insistent
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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #163 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 9:21pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 13^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

moses wrote on Jan 13^th, 2014 at 3:49pm:

Daniel 12 to me appears to be predicting the last days, sometime in the future.

I've tried explaining that to him Moses, for several pages now. I'm not quite sure why he is so insistent

Says the blind Godless guy, that stands in open rebellion against Jesus Christ, who refuses even to recognize the restoration of Jews to their land as being a fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/zionism_in_prophecy.htm

A guy who got mad at a some people in his church, and so he abandoned Jesus Christ.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

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« Last Edit: Jan 13^th, 2014 at 9:59pm by Pete Waldo »

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Pete Waldo

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Re: ASIO actions against islamic security concerns
Reply #164 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 9:25pm

moses wrote on Jan 13^th, 2014 at 3:49pm:

I can't see the correlation between Israel being restored in 1948 and Daniel chapter 12

I understand why as I've been there. But have you ever considered a uniform approach to all Bible prophecy, within the tradition of historicism, moses?
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm

moses wrote on Jan 13^th, 2014 at 3:49pm:

Daniel 12 to me appears to be predicting the last days, sometime in the future.

Daniel's prophecy was sealed until the time of the end. What the math demonstrates, is that we are in what Daniel's prophecy refers to as the time of the end, and the book of Daniel has been unsealed.
http://www.zionismchristian.com/daniel_prophesied_modern_zionism.htm

Unsealed by the simple passage of time, and subsequent fulfillment of prophecy, not by the hand of some 18th century Roman Church Jesuit named Luis Alcazar, (preterism) or some 19th century guy named John Nelson Darby (futurism):
http://www.christianeschatology.com/futurism_dispensationalism.htm#history_of_fu...

As would have likely been readily recognized by historicists like Isaac Newton, Matthew Henry and Thieleman van Braght were they here today:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm#reformers_time_of_end

But the only way you will even get a chance to see it, is if you are willing to set aside your present approach, and consider the complete picture within the traditional approach of historicism, and then judge it entirely on its own merit as compared with your present approach. In other words, you won't be able to understand if you keep trying to wring each concept through the filter of your present approach to prophecy, because preterism, futurism and historicism are mutually exclusive approaches to Bible prophecy.

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« Last Edit: Jan 13^th, 2014 at 9:55pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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