Australian Politics Forum - Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens

woody2014

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #315 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 2:55pm

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 2:42pm:

woody2014 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 2:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 2:02pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:53pm:

1) It's not about 'privately praying' It's about changing the way Parliament is opened, based on the objections of a single person (or small group)

It's more than "the objections of a single person (or small group)". It may be unconstitutional. If it goes to the High Court and is struck out for being in violation of Section 116 of the Constitution, what then?

Well then you do something about it. Till then don't get your nicker's in a knot . Wink

The only ones getting their knickers in a knot are the religious nutters who are aghast at their particular ritual being removed from somewhere where it should never have been allowed in the first place.

Bloody hell people thought a lot different 110 years ago Angry

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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Bam

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #316 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 4:55pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 2:43pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:59pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:54pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:11pm:

____ wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:37pm:

People can still pray, just do it silently or outside work hours.
If people want to pray during work, join a monastery.

And if 75% or 80% of Members of the House want to start the session with the prayer???

The Greens are once again trying to push their version of morality on to everyone....oh and btw, getting rid of the lord's prayer in Parliament won't get rid of the religious objections to same-sex marriage, it'll probably have the exact opposite effect and make it harder to get the Marriage Act changed.

Hold on a moment. Why is it OK for the religious from one particular religion to push their prayers onto everyone, but not OK for this to be abolished? Isn't that hypocritical?

Can you show us where it's compulsory for everyone in the Chamber to join in??

Answer my questions please.

Ok, 'the religious from one religion' aren't pushing their prayers onto anyone.

Yes they are, they're insisting that the Lord's Prayer be retained.

Quote:

Christianity is not forcing people to pray ( and it's a term for a group of religions, not just one).

Sure. Let them adjourn to a prayer room before the sitting day begins and they can hold hands, pray and sing Halleluyah all they want. Keep the prayer off the floor of the House - as Section 116 of the Constitution demands.

Quote:

BUT one person or possible several anti-religious people from the Greens are trying to push their beliefs onto the Australian Parliament, probably against the wishes of the actual Members of that Parliament. ( I say probably, because if praying at the opening was against the wishes of, or offensive to the sitting members, THEY, themselves, would have already voted to stop it).

And yet you do not see the hypocrisy of the minority of Christian members demanding that the anachronistic prayer be retained. They are foisting their beliefs onto others just as much as the Greens you so loudly denounce.

As expected, you did not address my question.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Aussie

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #317 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:07pm

Neferti wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2014 at 5:50pm:

I must be blind.

It is referred to in the Preamble. So, yes, to take this bit out of the Preamble would require the usual procedure of changing The Constitution.

Quote:

The Preamble to the Australian Constitution affirms that the Federation was brought into being by an act "humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God." There it is, stated in print, in our Constitution. It would of course be interesting to know more about how the Preamble was composed and what those writing it actually thought about this phrase that, in a most important way, qualifies the act of founding the Commonwealth of Australia. But by even stating this much, we have potentially embarrassed those who have called for the abolition of the Lord's Prayer. Why? Because whether the writers of the Constitution meant it or not, the phrase actually implies that prayer to the Almighty is an implicit facet of Australia's political life, and is thus assumed to be a normal part of our system of government. To say it again: "humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God" is itself a prayer.

Preamble Herei

You said emphatically that The Lord's Prayer was in Section 116, not the Preamble as you now claim.....and it is very clear that what is in the Preamble is not the Lord's Prayer.

/end

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #318 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:25pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:07pm:

Neferti wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2014 at 5:50pm:

I must be blind.

It is referred to in the Preamble. So, yes, to take this bit out of the Preamble would require the usual procedure of changing The Constitution.

Quote:

The Preamble to the Australian Constitution affirms that the Federation was brought into being by an act "humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God." There it is, stated in print, in our Constitution. It would of course be interesting to know more about how the Preamble was composed and what those writing it actually thought about this phrase that, in a most important way, qualifies the act of founding the Commonwealth of Australia. But by even stating this much, we have potentially embarrassed those who have called for the abolition of the Lord's Prayer. Why? Because whether the writers of the Constitution meant it or not, the phrase actually implies that prayer to the Almighty is an implicit facet of Australia's political life, and is thus assumed to be a normal part of our system of government. To say it again: "humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God" is itself a prayer.

Preamble Here i

You said emphatically that The Lord's Prayer was in Section 116, not the Preamble as you now claim.....and it is very clear that what is in the Preamble is not the Lord's Prayer.

/end

Is this person brain dead. Why can't she just google the Aust Constitution and then READ IT, instead of making all these obviously incorrect claims and looking like the idiot she is?

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Neferti

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #319 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 6:18pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:25pm:

Preamble Here

Is this person brain dead. Why can't she just google the Aust Constitution and then READ IT, instead of making all these obviously incorrect claims and looking like the idiot she is?

I did read The Constitution. Have you? Click on the words

"Preamble Here"

and you will find this:

The Australian Constitution

Table of Provisions

View the Constitution as a single document (PDF 92KB)

An Act to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia [9th July 1900]
(63 & 64 Victoria - Chapter 12)
Preamble
Chapter I. The Parliament (s. 1 to 60)
      Part I - General (s. 1 to 6)
      Part II - The Senate (s. 7 to 23)
      Part III - The House of Representatives (s. 24 to 40)
      Part IV - Both Houses of the Parliament (s. 41 to 50)
      Part V - Powers of the Parliament (s. 51 to 60)
Chapter II. The Executive Government (s. 61 to 70)
Chapter III. The Judicature (s. 71 to 80)
Chapter IV. Finance and Trade (s. 81 to 105A)
Chapter V. The States (s. 106 to 120)
Chapter VI. New States (s. 121 to 124)
Chapter VII. Miscellaneous (s. 125 to 127)
Chapter VIII. Alteration of the Constitution (s. 128)
The Schedule

Now, you go and read the bloody thing. OK?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #320 - Jan 24^th, 2014 at 6:25am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:51pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 1:10pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:35pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:25pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 12:20pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 7:05am:

It's a good Greens idea -

get rid of ridiculous religious nonsense.

And why is it ok to disenfranchise those Australians, and Australian politicians who ARE religious??

What is being proposed is getting rid of the silly religious rituals not the religious ppl.

SOB

And you don't see that it would upset the religious people far more than sitting in parliament, going over paper work while the religiously inclined pray, would upset most atheists or agnostics???

95% of atheists/agnostics don't care if someone else prays, as long as they're not expected to join in.

But they are expected to join in or @ least stand. Also its offensive since church and government are supposed to be separate.

SOB

Are they?? Are you sure about that??

Yup. Even gillard had to stand. Its stupid. You can say officially they dont have to but they do have to.

SOB

Had to, or chose to?
I'm pretty sure there are non-christian members of parliament, have any (like Adam Bandt) been ejected for not standing?

Had to. What would happen if she didnt? Hmmm?

Meanwhile would you stand for the muslim prayer?

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Bam

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Re: Scrap Lord's Prayer in Parliament: Greens
Reply #321 - Jan 24^th, 2014 at 6:44am

Neferti wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 6:18pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 5:25pm:

Preamble Here

Is this person brain dead. Why can't she just google the Aust Constitution and then READ IT, instead of making all these obviously incorrect claims and looking like the idiot she is?

I did read The Constitution. Have you? Click on the words

"Preamble Here"

and you will find this:

The Australian Constitution

Table of Provisions

View the Constitution as a single document (PDF 92KB)

An Act to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia [9th July 1900]
(63 & 64 Victoria - Chapter 12)
Preamble
Chapter I. The Parliament (s. 1 to 60)
      Part I - General (s. 1 to 6)
      Part II - The Senate (s. 7 to 23)
      Part III - The House of Representatives (s. 24 to 40)
      Part IV - Both Houses of the Parliament (s. 41 to 50)
      Part V - Powers of the Parliament (s. 51 to 60)
Chapter II. The Executive Government (s. 61 to 70)
Chapter III. The Judicature (s. 71 to 80)
Chapter IV. Finance and Trade (s. 81 to 105A)
Chapter V. The States (s. 106 to 120)
Chapter VI. New States (s. 121 to 124)
Chapter VII. Miscellaneous (s. 125 to 127)
Chapter VIII. Alteration of the Constitution (s. 128)
The Schedule

Now, you go and read the bloody thing. OK?

Why were you claiming it was in Section 116 when it is clearly not?
Neferti wrote on Jan 17^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

BTW The Lords Prayer is listed in The Constitution (s 116) as I said.

Bam wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Quote:

Constitution of Australia - Section 116

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Poll
Question: Should the Lord's Prayer be scrapped in Parliament?
Yes 13 (68.4%) No 6 (31.6%) not sure 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 19 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jan 18^th, 2014 at 3:56pm »