Australian Politics Forum - Truebelieverland

perceptions_now

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #60 - Jan 25^th, 2014 at 7:53pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around %900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP.

Norway has a sovereign fund that is more than 1 million a person. A large part of this is because when they found they were sitting on a resource gold mine, they decided to invest the revenue from it, instead of Australia, which instead decided to give upper class tax cuts.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/all-norwegians-become-millionaire-sharehol...

My error, that should have been $900 Billion, not %900 Billion.

That said, Politicians on both Left & Right in Norway, put the countries Natural Resource Wealth to work for the entire Population, not just a small segment of the Population, which is what Australia & most other countries have done with their Natural Resources.

The result is that Norway are one of the few countries who will be able to survive the coming Economic mess, in a reasonable way!

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #61 - Jan 25^th, 2014 at 7:55pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 3:48pm:

No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other.

The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES!

Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test!

A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians.

In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes.

But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ -

1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio

2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio

3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio

4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp

So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt.

But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP.

So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

Good post PN. I know this doesn't tell the whole story but just another piece of evidence that the cr@p were being told that capitalism works better, is just that

cr@p!

. It works better for the rich is all

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Torpedo

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #62 - Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

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If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Swagman

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #63 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:49am by Swagman »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #64 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:09am

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #65 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:01am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 5:58pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 4:21pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:58pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

PS

......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius.

Cheesy

Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . .

SOB

My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get?

Where did i say that troll?

SOB

In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.

Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones.

SOB

But it is not typical at all. That is just you colouring things.

Yes it is

SOB

Nope, for it to be typical, it has to be the way a majority of the people are, so unless you can show that more than 60%-75% of 'righties' are believers in "the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . .", then it's not 'typical'

Are you trying to tell me that most rightards are NOT religious nuts?

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85220 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Truebelieverland Reply #66 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:52am Nah - most religious nuts are Rightards.... not the same thing...
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: Truebelieverland Reply #67 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 7:00am Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:52am: Nah - most religious nuts are Rightards.... not the same thing... Haha you may have a point SOB
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John Smith

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #68 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 8:31am

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

having trouble distinguishing between truth and fiction, I see .... have you met Warrigal yet? I think you two would get along great Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Swagman

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #69 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:33am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:09am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

Based on Finland where they have a 24% GST and a very efficient public health and education sector.

The Fins also have relatively low marginal tax rates (30% is the highest bracket) and a low company tax rate (24.5%)

Now a Truebeliever would argue that a 24% GST is unfair on the poor but the opposite is true.

Why? Because the GST funds the public services and social security that the poor rely upon.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #70 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich.

I did suggest that Swanny broadened the base and increased the rate of the GST— http://wp.me/p30JJG-56 —in a way that overcompensated those on lowest incomes. That would make the GST fairer and even boost private sector spending (disposable income.) I included reform to payroll tax so that the states got more revenue from that and the broadening of the GST base.

But I no longer think that—there is WAY too much money in the form of tax expenditures going to the rich that needs to be cut, like $100Bn a year and growing rapidly—THAT is the true unsustainability in government spending.

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I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

Friends of the National Broadband Network

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Swagman

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #71 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #72 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:31am

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 3:48pm:

No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other.

The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES!

Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test!

A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians.

In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes.

But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ -

1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio

2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio

3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio

4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp

So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt.

But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP.

So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

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stryder Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4545 Gender:	Re: Truebelieverland Reply #73 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:39am So your point is that you dont support any economic system even though i get a very subtle lefty impression out of you perceptions.
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Stratos

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #74 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Interest rates and GST address two separate issues.
Also worth noting that GST would affect everybody and raising interest rates only directly effects those who have mortgages.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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