Australian Politics Forum - Truebelieverland

Cliff48

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #90 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:58pm

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes? (my heart bleeds)

You must do you maths before you accuse anyone of anything.
How the bugger would you run a business when you pay GST on products you buy to run and don't charge GST on what you sell.
You must be a socialist.

You must be the most pathetic business man i know.

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Torpedo

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #91 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:01pm

and also, lets not forget, inflation boom is now inevitable.
as soon as you begin to adjust your lifestyle - if you can still call it a lifestyle, and not a prison cell - something happens, Carbon tax, sudden and unreasonable boost in utility rates, rent rise following the inflation, private health rise
smells of riot and massacre
another detroit?

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If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Torpedo

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #92 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:02pm

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes? (my heart bleeds)

You must do you maths before you accuse anyone of anything.
How the bugger would you run a business when you pay GST on products you buy to run and don't charge GST on what you sell.
You must be a socialist.

You must be the most pathetic business man i know.

perhaps, move on then

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If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #93 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:07pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Your say that because you're only looking at your interests instead of the interests of the community as a whole.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #94 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:14pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:33am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:09am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke. Executed their PM. There'd be no businesses or industry. They'd be overrun with illegal entrants. Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... Grin

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land. But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in. The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing. A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

Based on Finland where they have a 24% GST and a very efficient public health and education sector.

The Fins also have relatively low marginal tax rates (30% is the highest bracket) and a low company tax rate (24.5%)

Now a Truebeliever would argue that a 24% GST is unfair on the poor but the opposite is true.

Why? Because the GST funds the public services and social security that the poor rely upon.

Yes but the poor are paying a much higher %age of their income in taxes then the rich which of course is why you like it because you have a me, me, me focus rather then a community focus. So why should we listen to you since you only support policies that benefit you regardless of what harm it does to the rest of the community.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #95 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:21pm

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

Its the same for most people Tropedo, not just struggling small business but for workers trying to bring up a family also. The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners. That's why they want to increase the GST because the higher GST rate the less tax they pay. It's really quite greedy and disgusting.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #96 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:27pm

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

What re you saying Torpedo? That in the future you want to aim towards Socialism?

no

Of course you don't want socialism. You dream that one day you can be the impossibly rich person and then you wont care for the small business person who cant afford to pay their GST but then you wont care because you will be RICH!!!! Pushing people around and we will all dream of being like you. Stupid person. Here let me tell you something that will save you all this trouble and heart break. You will never be rich.!!! Its just the dream they want you to chase so you will continue to support the system that makes them ridiculously rich.

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Swagman

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #97 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:34pm

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.

The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates.

Low company tax rates attract business investment. Low income tax rates promotes spending. Business investment and higher spending levels equate to more job opportunities and greater GST tax revenues and income tax revenues.

The GST revenues fund superior education and superior public health. A healthy intelligent population will have healthy and profitable enterprises.

The Fins have achieved this in a couple of generations.

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Swagman

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #98 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:43pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:21pm:

The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners

Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population.

The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Truebelieverland Reply #99 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:46pm Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:34pm: The Fins have achieved this in a couple of generations. ...Through a social democracy. Seriously, based on your previous comments, if Australia tried to implement anything like the policies they have in Finland you would be the first to go nuts.
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Torpedo

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #100 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:48pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.

The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates.

The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right.
Example:
Total sales in a Qtr = $150000
Total purchases = $80000
total GST is $6363
add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K
so seems like it's better if business produces less sales

but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K

seems reasonable?
or am I missing something?

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If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: Truebelieverland Reply #101 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:55pm 30k every quarter for a small person, even selling the last pair of pants off and sleeping in a carboard box out in the street won't help to pay it
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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #102 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:00pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:21pm:

The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners

Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population.

The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both.

Ohhh BS!!!! The GST was brought in to recalibrate the tax burden so that high income earners could pay less income tax. All your spin wont change that fact

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #103 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:21pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Yeah yeah

Remember when the GST was brought in? Rich people got HUGE tax cuts, ordinary people got a bit of bracket creep returned—a clerk on $550/week got a massive $11 tax cut. Those on lower incomes spend more of their wage proportionally than higher income people (who also can get out of paying a lot of income tax, especially with all the tax expenditure Howard irresponsibly put into the Budget.

States had to give up the grants they used to get.

With all the GST revenue states have built bureaucratic empires, especially in hospitals and universities.

Any increase in GST should go to C/w who can then crack the whip over the states to get rid of huge bureaucracies, etc.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Truebelieverland
Reply #104 - Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:25pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George. It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Yeah yeah

Remember when the GST was brought in? Rich people got HUGE tax cuts, ordinary people got a bit of bracket creep returned—a clerk on $550/week got a massive $11 tax cut. Those on lower incomes spend more of their wage proportionally than higher income people (who also can get out of paying a lot of income tax, especially with all the tax expenditure Howard irresponsibly put into the Budget.

States had to give up the grants they used to get.

With all the GST revenue states have built bureaucratic empires, especially in hospitals and universities.

Any increase in GST should go to C/w who can then crack the whip over the states to get rid of huge bureaucracies, etc.

I remember it well George. You are entirely correct. The Swagman is banking that most people forgot how it was brought in and now he gives us this BS spin.

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