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Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc (Read 3415 times)
St George of the Garden
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Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Jan 25th, 2014 at 5:54pm
 
Is there interest to provide a primer so people can judge between the various types of wide area networking, especially between the NBN and Fraudband and wireless?

Anybody want to do it?
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Neferti
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #1 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 7:44pm
 
Like this basic stuff? Smiley

http://ccss.usc.edu/499/netprimer.html

Quote:
This course requires some background knowledge about networking and operating systems. In this material we will cover some networking basics that will help you understand how some security threats work and why it is difficult to find effective solutions against them.

In all network communications one machine - client - initiates communication with another machine - server.
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #2 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:02am
 
Neferti wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 7:44pm:
Like this basic stuff? Smiley

http://ccss.usc.edu/499/netprimer.html
...
Obsolete. Doesn't cover IPv6.
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #3 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:07am
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 5:54pm:
Is there interest to provide a primer so people can judge between the various types of wide area networking, especially between the NBN and Fraudband and wireless?

Anybody want to do it?
Good luck with that. The honest don't need it; the others won't heed it.

It would be interesting to find out just how many people really don't know, though.
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Neferti
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #4 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:26am
 
# wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:02am:
Neferti wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 7:44pm:
Like this basic stuff? Smiley

http://ccss.usc.edu/499/netprimer.html
...
Obsolete. Doesn't cover IPv6.


It was just an example!

Quote:
Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) is the latest revision of the Internet Protocol (IP), the communications protocol that provides an identification and location system for computers on networks and routes traffic across the Internet. IPv6 was developed by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) to deal with the long-anticipated problem of IPv4 address exhaustion.

IPv6 is intended to replace IPv4, which still carries the vast majority of Internet traffic as of 2013.[1] As of September 2013, the percentage of users reaching Google services over IPv6 surpassed 2% for the first time.[2]

Every device on the Internet must be assigned an IP address in order to communicate with other devices. With the ever-increasing number of new devices being connected to the Internet, the need arose for more addresses than IPv4 is able to accommodate. IPv6 uses a 128-bit address, allowing 2128, or approximately 3.4×1038 addresses, or more than 7.9×1028 times as many as IPv4, which uses 32-bit addresses. IPv4 allows only approximately 4.3 billion addresses. The two protocols are not designed to be interoperable, complicating the transition to IPv6.

IPv6 addresses are represented as eight groups of four hexadecimal digits separated by colons, for example 2001:0db8:85a3:0042:1000:8a2e:0370:7334, but methods of abbreviation of this full notation exist.
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Aussie
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #5 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:04pm
 
# wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:07am:
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 5:54pm:
Is there interest to provide a primer so people can judge between the various types of wide area networking, especially between the NBN and Fraudband and wireless?

Anybody want to do it?
Good luck with that. The honest don't need it; the others won't heed it.

It would be interesting to find out just how many people really don't know, though.


If someone can dumb it down starting from basics and using non smartarse/technical language, I'll be all eyes.
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #6 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:04pm:
# wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:07am:
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 5:54pm:
Is there interest to provide a primer so people can judge between the various types of wide area networking, especially between the NBN and Fraudband and wireless?

Anybody want to do it?
Good luck with that. The honest don't need it; the others won't heed it.

It would be interesting to find out just how many people really don't know, though.


If someone can dumb it down starting from basics and using non smartarse/technical language, I'll be all eyes.
I tried to think this through, but just gave myself a headache. It's a really complex subject or, more accurately, set of subjects. That's why it's difficult to avoid "smartarse/technical language".

Someone more knowledgeable than I could put a lot of time and effort into producing something that's of no use to you at all. I guess the best place to start is with people asking questions. That's difficult because how do you know what you don't know? Then, of course, we just have to hope that there's someone around, willing and able to answer.

See where my headache came from?  Tongue
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St George of the Garden
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:24am
 
What do people understand by the terms:

Contention
Spectrum

Also

How do you get more speed out of copper, and what are the drawbacks?

I bought my first computer in ’79. Was great, could do programming, play a game. Took that computer with me and started my first business with it, then bought another computer. One computer used for data entry, one for accounts, invoicing etc. So, two stand alone computers.

Eventually—needed to connect the computers with some sort of network. I used Appletalk which used twisted pair wires like phone wires. One network wire connecting all computers and two laser printers running through the walls of the office.

We could now copy files from one computer to another or direct a print job to which printer we wanted for that print job. That was fine, bit slow compared to ethernet but would not be fine in a business with hundreds of computers and dozens of printers: Appletalk was a “noisy” networking technology with each computer and each printer constantly sending out “I am here” signal. At some point these “I am here” signals would slow actual traffic to a crawl. The network would be congested—very heavily contended.

You could do things to reduce network congestion by installing routers which would split one giant network into a collection of smaller networks which communicated with one another.

Wireless networking is a network technology that is prone to congestion as more and more subscribers are put on one tower. Making wireless network technology faster is only a temporary fix—make it faster, more subscribe and it becomes congested again. In the CBDs the networks would have the heaviest load during the day, in the suburbs the heaviest load is in the evenings—everyone wants to use the network at the same time—this is peak load.

If a wireless network offers a certain bandwidth you are most likely to get that full bandwidth by sitting under that tower at 3.00am on a clear, dry Sunday morning! When I had ADSL in my office it slowed right down late Friday afternoon as end of week reports would get sent to Head Office and others were emailing etc friends to organise weekend social activities.

After I retired and had to make do with wireless broadband I noticed it would slow down markedly late afternoon when kids came home from school and started playing multi–person (i.e. networked) games. Now most have left for 4G my network speed has gone back to its maximum, 20mbps down and 3-4mbps up. Quite useable. The black person in the woodpile tho is that wireless broadband uses elecromagnetic radiation sent through the atmosphere and so is subject to atmospheric conditions especially moisture.

Rain, humidity provide obstacles the signal has to pass through and more and more the signal has to be resent, slowing down the bandwidth and even causing the wireless modem to lose contact and I have to reset it, up to six times an hour on really humid days.

So all networks suffer from contention, but wireless networking suffers from contention the most, is frequently congested at peak times. Fibre optics networks suffer contention too, but at peak time a FTTH network might slow down by 10–15%. ADSL suffers more congestion than that at peak times and wireless, with its thousands of subscribers per tower suffers the most from contention.

Does this explain contention clearly enough? Contention = competition for network bandwidth.
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #8 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 6:36pm
 
I think so... very good simian  Smiley
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St George of the Garden
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #9 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 7:21pm
 
Goodoh, monkey  Smiley
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St George of the Garden
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #10 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:37pm
 
Looking at copper, still the most common broadband carrier but rapidly becoming obsolete.

Copper wire for telephone and ADSL comes as a twisted pair, the wires twisted around each other. The reason for that is that if the wire passes some strong electric field it would shift the voltage of the wires but since they are twisted this interference affects the voltage in both lines the same and it is the difference in voltage between the lines carries the signal.

If we want to increase the data carrying capability of the copper—increase its bandwidth—we can do that by increasing the frequency of the signal, or to put it another way use a shorter wavelength. That will work, within limits but eventually as the frequency is raised higher the signal interferes with signals in adjacent pairs and “cross talk” happens. Early in my working life this happened even with voice—I would ring a number—and find myself connected to a phone call between two other, unknown people. As we raise data signal frequencies this cross talk results in muddled data being received which meant the receiver had to tell the sender (electronic receiver/sender I mean, not people) to re-send the data which obviously slows the transmission of data.

So ADSL has a fairly limited spectrum (range of frequencies) and so a limited range of speeds.

Copper also has a fairly high impedance, needs power sources etc to transmit the signal over distance. The higher the speed (56K modem/ADSL/ADSL2/VDSL/VDSL2/GFast) the higher the frequencies the higher the need for better line and the shorter the distance the signal will travel before it degrades (over a Km VDSL2 is barely better than ADSL—there are charts of this in the main NBN thread.

To get the signal through with least degradation over distance the lines and joins need to be impeccable—one bad joint will seriously degrade the signal. The copper should be low impedance and for Australia there is some bad news: Whereas most countries that have run out FTTN (i.e. VDSLx) have wires of .6mm or more, Telstra wires are a mere .3 or .42mm. Nobody (bar Telstra management and the current NBN Co board) will call Telstra wires impeccable either.

To minimise crosstalk vectoring was developed:
Quote:
In a typical copper loop, Peeters explains, the signal is transmitted over a copper pair to minimize the electromagnetic interference. ”But still, part of the signal of one customer’s wire often leaks into another customer’s, and that’s when you get what’s known as cross talk,” he says. Cross talk limits bandwidth by corrupting the signals that are transmitting information.

Cross talk is theoretically easy to completely eliminate, as long as you can estimate how much one line is leaking into another. Then you can cancel out that interference with calculations performed by hardware installed in the cabinet, Peeters says. Cross talk estimation uses what’s called an error vector, which is sent from a user’s home equipment back to the cabinet. The receiving equipment there knows what the signal should look like, and the difference is a good measure of the amount of cross talk between a wire and all the wires around it, Peeters says.

In the new VDSL2 scheme, the cross talk for every line in a cabinet is estimated using these error vectors and then processed to minimize the interference for them all.

”Computation for VDSL2 vectoring can be demanding,” Peeters says, because there’s a large matrix of cross talk measurements to consider. ”For 48 lines, it requires as much processing power as a PlayStation 3,” he says. But due to the decreasing cost of silicon and the high cost of digging for fiber, he estimates that the cost of installing VDSL2 with vectoring is still no more than one-third the cost of running fiber all the way to the home.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/copper-at-the-speed-of-fiber

Can we use vectoring with Telstra copper? With its relatively high impedance, poor quality wiring and joints I am not sure vectoring would actually be introduced here. (note the article quoted puts vectoring at 1/3 the cost of FTTH—beginning to be not worth doing here!

Sortius is not hopeful of vectoring working here:
Quote:
First, I’ll  look at AT&T’s vectoring & what their plan is. AT&T have slated US$3b to upgrade 1 million customers to either pair bonded/vectored services or to FTTH/FTTB. The upgrade is minimal at best, servicing a paltry 1.7% of their customer base, yet the per service cost is around US$3000, not exactly cheap for something they’ve already spent billions on deploying, & will have to spend billions upgrading soon. There’s also the whole bonding with vectoring, something that just wouldn’t be possible with Australia’s copper network: there just aren’t enough high speed data capable pairs for people to run bonded services.

http://www.sortius-is-a-geek.com/why-youll-never-get-vectoring/

(Sortius spent a fair bit of his working life working with the actual copper—sure check what he says but will find he is spot on normally.)

GFast won’t happen here, needs like 8 bonded good pairs per premises, a lot here don’t have ONE good pair—the dreaded pair gain!
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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:57pm by St George of the Garden »  

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Neferti
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #11 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:11pm
 
...
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:27pm
 
What is Neferti trying to say???  Shocked
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St George of the Garden
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #13 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:47pm
 
I have given up trying to work that out.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Primer on networking and the NBN, wireless bb etc
Reply #14 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 2:00pm
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:47pm:
I have given up trying to work that out.

Must be the ol' mysterious female thing where nothing else matters but real estate and established class systems!!  Cool Cool Wait, ...I might get banned for that  Grin Grin Grin Grin  Embarrassed
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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