polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:05pm:


It isn't about me gand, but about

your

accusation.
So you make an accusation against Jesus but don't feel any need to support it?

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Like the time Muhamnmed executed 800 Jewish POWs?

Of course Christianity does not command people to allow themselves and others to be slaughtered. Where is the love in that? That is not the same thing as raping and pillaging in the name of religion.

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No. He ordained stretching the meaning of self defense to the point where it becomes unrecognisable, in order to justify rape and pillage in the name of Islam.

Pete Waldo wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 10:02pm:


Obviously I reject your interpretation of 2 swords only. "2 swords" is either metaphorical, or referring to 2 swords for everyone (not 2 swords total). Either way, my interpretation has Jesus saying "if you are threatened physically, use swords to defend yourselves".

I'm pretty sure I've covered this before.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:27pm:


Men have attempted to justify all kinds of things. Once again you are judging the Gospel by the deeds of men, rather than the deeds of men by the Gospel. Violence such as the Roman Church murder of Jew, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS is one of the greatest stumbling blocks for non-Christians to see the Gospel.

The fact is that the very disciples you are saying that Jesus called to violence against others, to defend Christianity, all died REAL martyrs deaths of being murdered purely for their beliefs. Just as those Christians that are being murdered all around the world today, for simply for refusing to renounce Jesus Christ, when it is demanded of them by Muslims.
https://www.google.com/#q=christian+killed+by+muslim+not+renounce+jesus

REAL martyr being one who says "I will die for what I believe"
While a Muslim so-called "martyr" is the opposite - that is being killed inadvertently while killing others - while saying "You will die for what I believe."

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:27pm:


That is nothing more than an oft repeated lie of Islamic taqiyyah, as proven by the matter of fact historical reality of the aggression of the imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims in the Arabian peninsula during Muhammad's lifetime, and near conquest of the whole known world up into France and Austria by his followers in his wake.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm#islamic_first_ji...

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:27pm:


Since I can't imagine you are ignorant to Muhammad's doctrine of abrogation, employed to resolve contradiction, I'll presume your are purveying more taqiyyah:

Surah 2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abrogation_quran.htm

71 out of only 114 suras are subject to abrogation (al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh). Later suras that call Muhammad's followers to violence against non-Muslims, abrogate the early Mecca drivel (that Muhammad obviously later regretted reciting).
Like this later sura:

Quran Surah 9.29 (113th in order of recitation) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

That his later Medina commands to imperialistic conquest and violence against non-Muslims abrogate his early more peaceful suras, when Islam lost any pretense of religiosity but became an aggressive, slaughtering, imperialistic political machine.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:27pm:


Bukhari V4 B52 #261 "...they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina)."

Quran Surah 5:33 The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides,.....

Now there's some real kindness and forgiveness eigh?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 9:27pm:


And the the location of the inscription doesn't communicate anything to you? What did Muhammad do with his sword? Show the handle to those he was vanquishing, through his imperialistic aggression, instead of running them through with it?
Can't even you see the stunning hypocrisy in what you wrote?
Please provide the source of what you quoted.

Pete, the abrogation in the quran schtick is a complete fabrication. I even got Yadda to concede that this was true.

Where abrogation is mentioned in the quran, it does not mean between sections within the quran, but rather between the quran and previous holy books (eg torah)

Pete Waldo wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 1:39am:


Why? You just ask the exact same questions I answered already.

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There was no state. There was not even a city. He was trying desperately to gain control of Medina. He talked his way in as a peacemaker then turned into a mass murderer. He had expelled two of the Jewish tribes, and finished the job by slaughtering the last.

And you are completely wrong. That difference between Muhammed and Jesus is not lost on people. It is recognised as one of the biggest problems with Islam. The difference being that rational people don't try to use it to justify or excuse every evil thing Muhammed did. Only Muslims do that, which is of course where the problem begins.

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Most other Muslims I have spoken to say it is within the Koran. Or at least, within Muhammed's own life. Not sure if he ordered the abrogated bits out of the Koran. I don't think he did. Muhammed initially presented a far more palatable version of Islam.