polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 7:19am:


Obviously. You didn't see why the post was relevant to this thread. I asked you two direct questions about it earlier in this thread, which you moved to the new thread and ignored.

You portrayed the Australian Muslim protestors as standing up for democracy. Do you think they have a genuine interest in promoting democracy throughout the Muslim world? Or are they more interested in furthering Morsi's and similar policies, which in this case happen to coincide with democracy?

Do you think that Morsi represents the majority of Egyptian Muslims? Do you think his policies reflect the will of the majority? Is it fair to judge Egyptian Muslims by that standard?

Do you have an opinion on the topic Karnal, or are you just trying out for the chearleading team?

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 10:31pm:


I have no idea, but they all seem awfully nice. Not one beheading slogan in the lot - how did they manage that?

They look more like Quakers than Muslims to me, FD.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 9:22pm:


They were. Morsi was democratically elected, and was overthrown in an undemocratic military coup.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 9:22pm:


Clearly not. As I said in a previous post, Morsi got around 51% of a 52% turnout. In voting terms, that would make him "representative" of just over 25% of the population. So he wasn't much more "representative" of the people than say Tony Abbott's government or Barak Obama. But it doesn't change the fact that what happened to him was an attack on democracy.

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 9:22pm:


What happened to Morsi (and the subsequent crackdown as we are seeing for example with the treatment of the Australian journalist) was an attack on democracy. The protestors clearly indicate that their concern is Egyptian democracy. It is perfectly reasonable and logical to assume these people are genuine in their concern for democracy. Only someone with a perverse prejudice against muslims would go searching for some sinister motives that there is no evidence for or any logical reason to believe.

And I still can't see how this is relevant to the issue of judging muslims by the actions of the majority.

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 12:35pm:


Do you think? I'm not sure the Muselman's capable of such reflection, FD.

It's against their religion, no?

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 12:35pm:


Gee I don't know FD, maybe something about all the anti-military coup placards and calls for freedom and democracy. Just a wild hunch there 

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 12:35pm:


Abbott won around 45% of the primary vote from a turnout of 93%. So just over 40% of the voting population voted for Abbott. In non-compulsory voting democracies its far worse - in the last US election, Obama got 52% of a turnout of 58% - which gives him a mandate roughly on par with Morsi's. If the military overthrew and gaoled Obama, would you consider it reasonable to start mocking and dismissing any subsequent street protests against that coup? Would you become an apologist for the coup simply on the basis that the vast majority of people didn't vote for Obama? 

Also I'm still trying to figure out what all this has to do with judging muslims by the actions of the majority.

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I was not asking for a guess Karnal.

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Like Abu?

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Can you give some examples of the calls for democracy?

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There can only be one winner Gandalf. That's why we have instant runoff voting. While I support the requirement for obtaining a majority rather than a plurality, I do not think it is rational to hold a failure to gain a majority of first preferences to undermine the legitimacy of the victory.

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Do you think that 100% of the people who support Morsi turned up and voted, while only 1/3 of the people opposed to him turned up?

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No. I expect people would protest out of genuine concern for democracy. I do not however, feel the same way about Muslims. Hence the question. This is not a guess or projection on my part, but rather is based on what Muslims themselves have told me. It is rather convenient that the one time that Muslims protest in support of democracy is when it also happens to be in support of an Islam-inspired retrograde political movement trying to drag people back to the 7th century.

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It would not surprise me.