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Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self. (Read 20987 times)
Grendel
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #210 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:11am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:02am:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 9:58am:
Gays refuse to hold a referendum re their spurious claims...  ever wonder why?  because they know the majority are not supportive and they will lose any referendum on gay marriage.


Ummmm, the constitution says nothing about marriage doesnt it? If so why do we need a referendum on gay marriage
`

Oh dear a pedant....  I used that term pastaface because that's what is used in the meeja all the time...  happy to use the correct term plebiscite for your pedantic plebness.
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Grendel
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #211 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:13am
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:03am:
I referendum would make gays a separate group, not part of the mainstream which they hate.

But support for gay marriage has strong majority support in all the polls I have seen. Allowing gays to marry would strengthen the institution of marriage.

Yet even most gays do not want gay marriage Monkey Boy.  Just a largely vocal minority of a very small minority and their hangerons.
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #212 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:13am
 
Sorry for being a pedant. Its necessary with all the f**king stupidity in this forum
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #213 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:15am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 9:58am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:46am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:40am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:31am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:20am:
The audience in QandA veers toward the "progressives". The audience's reaction to the panellists and the topics involved reflect that. It's odd that 40% supposed Liberal supports would boo their own or remain entirely silent throughout the show. Quantum is right that the topics the Greens are obsessed with get the most cheers, yet are only ever about 10% of the audience. Something doesn't add up.

Once again, your assumption is that a typical liberal supporter will:
1. Not agree with environmental policy, gay rights,assisting asylum seeker etc. 

That is not a left ideal. It's a centrist ideal. And the majority of Austrlaia, the vast majority, is centrist.

So your assumption is wrong, as typically the issues discussed on the show have majority support of the public, and it's a shame that we have an extremist PM with an extremist ideology, that simply get supported by the extremists of the liberal party, who happen to make up the majority of liberal party posters on this forum.



Anyone who doesn't believe in open borders for asylum seekers and supports gay marriage is heckled on the show. That's not centrist. Gay marriage concerns hardly anyone; for most people it just doesn't register as an important issue, yet it gets talked about time and time again.


And that's where you're wrong once again.

Gay marriage might not be a primary concern for most people, but it is an important issue that has been debated for now over a decade, and guess what, the majority of people support it. Hence why those who are against it get heckled, because it is so extremist to be against it, as is typically shown by the "opinion" on why that person is against it, which always ends on some extreme rant.

Same for asylum seekers: the majority of Australians support proper treatment of asylum seekers. People don't support people smugglers, but it's only the extreme that are scared of the "brown people".

I doubt that very much and you must be in denial to espouse such nonsense.
The Libs won the last election they oppose gay marriage and have a policy to stop the boats.
Gays refuse to hold a referendum re their spurious claims...  ever wonder why?  because they know the majority are not supportive and they will lose any referendum on gay marriage.


You seem to think that if people vote for a particular party they support ALL their policies. That's bullcrap.  And on top of that, "stop the boats" doesn't mean peopl ewant to see harsh treatment of asylum seekers, or hate asylum seekers.

With regard to your stupid point re: homosexual marriage. It doesn't need a referendum, you want to know why? because changing an act doesn't require a referendum, and the act was happily changed in 2004, which created this whole issue.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #214 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:18am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:13am:
St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:03am:
I referendum would make gays a separate group, not part of the mainstream which they hate.

But support for gay marriage has strong majority support in all the polls I have seen. Allowing gays to marry would strengthen the institution of marriage.

Yet even most gays do not want gay marriage Monkey Boy.  Just a largely vocal minority of a very small minority and their hangerons.



"Polling of gay & lesbian community on marriage equality:

"Not Yet Equal Report, 2005: 98% want legal recognition of same sex relationships.

"All Love is Equal Report, 2007: 86.3% want to have the right to marry.

"Not so Private Lives Report, 2010: 54.7% overall would marry if they could.

"Not so Private Lives Report, 2010: 80.8% of those with children <5 would marry if they could.

"Not so Private Lives Report, 2010: 66.7% of 18-19 year olds would marry if they could.

"Not so Private Lives Report, 2010: 62.8% of 20-29 year olds would marry if they could.

"Not Yet Equal Report, 2005: Only 15% would have a civil union if it were available."

http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/wp/who-supports-equality/a-majority-of...

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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #215 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:19am
 
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:01am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:31am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 8:20am:
The audience in QandA veers toward the "progressives". The audience's reaction to the panellists and the topics involved reflect that. It's odd that 40% supposed Liberal supports would boo their own or remain entirely silent throughout the show. Quantum is right that the topics the Greens are obsessed with get the most cheers, yet are only ever about 10% of the audience. Something doesn't add up.

Once again, your assumption is that a typical liberal supporter will:
1. Not agree with environmental policy, gay rights,assisting asylum seeker etc. 

That is not a left ideal. It's a centrist ideal. And the majority of Austrlaia, the vast majority, is centrist.


And your assuming that just because an issue is not necessary hated by the majority that it must therefore be supported in the full.

Just because someone doesn't want to see the environment destroyed and bushland wiped out doesn't therefore mean that want to live in the greens world where almost nothing can be touched because of the environmental effects. Just because someone doesn't want to see refugees suffer or dying at sea doesn't therefore mean that want to open the borders and let everyone seek refuge. Just because someone doesn't want to see gays being beaten up of bared from society doesn't therefore mean that want to go and wave their rainbow flag and let them marry.

Yes the majority of Australians are in the centre and want to see some level of environmental policy, rights for gays, and assisting asylum seekers. But that doesn't make them a bunch of green cheerers like seen on Q&A.    

Quote:
So your assumption is wrong, as typically the issues discussed on the show have majority support of the public, and it's a shame that we have an extremist PM with an extremist ideology, that simply get supported by the extremists of the liberal party, who happen to make up the majority of liberal party posters on this forum.



How do you hold these two things together considering we just had an election less than 6 months ago where this "extremist ideology" PM was voted in by a large margin? If the majority of Australians hold to the greens view (the view that the Q&A audience continuously cheer for and the shows questions continuously focus on) why is Milne Mrs 8.65%? If the majority support the positions held on Q&A and Abbott holds the very opposite position, then he simply would not have had such an easy victory in a country that has compulsory voting.

I would have though that when a party has a position on these issues (environmental policy, gay rights, assisting asylum seeker), takes it to a national election with compulsory voting, and then gets the majority support, that this would better reflect where the position of the majority of Australians are than the cheer squad on Q&A who "claim" to be liberal voters. Yet, for some reason people decided to vote for a PM and party they hate because, why? Because there was no alternative party who has position on "environmental policy, gay rights, assisting asylum seeker" which is pretty much exactly the same as the one on the show?

As someone who didn't vote for the Liberal party, I still have to accept the fact that they better represent the position of most Australians on these issues, especially compared to a party like the greens.   




Once again you seem to believe that to hold specific views means you are somehow green. As you have rightfully acknowledged, the majority of Australians are in the centre and want to see some level of environmental policy, rights for gays, and assisting asylum seekers.  So most of the cheers and agreeance you see on Q&A is not becuase it is packed3 with green voters, but because the right side commentators are loons that come up with absolute nonsense that no one in the center of politics can ever agree with. Who can forget Albrechstein with her "I don't support gay marriage because I don't support it. I don't have a reason I just don't suppor tit."  How can anyone clap that stupidity??  But that's not to say there werent people in the audience who opposed gay marriage; it's just the commentators from the right tend to be more extreme than the average voter, and tend to be incrediably stupid.

And I can say that about Tony because the polls suggest his new policies are not liked,  He even had to hide them!  Who knew that Tony would go ahead with the environmental vandalism that he has in the past 6 months? People voted in part against Rudd/Gillard, in part against the boats and in part against the carbon tax. But no one voted to see the environment minister approve destruction of the reef, or the removal of world heritage on forests.  Or now apparently the renewable energy targets being scrapped.  You know, all those things that were hidden. As for gay marriage, when it came to the fiasco that was the Labor Party leadership, of course that would've rated second in priority, if not even third. But that fact remains that the majority of Australians support it, either by have a strong view on it, or having the view of "who gives a f**k".
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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:32am by sir prince duke alevine »  

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Grendel
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #216 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am
 
Quote:
Labor Senator Penny Wong has told Insight that she does not want a plebiscite or a referendum on same sex marriage.

She believes the public discourse on same sex marriage lacks compassion and respect, and a referendum would likely fail.


Quote:
During the leaders’ debate, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced that the Labor government would introduce a bill on same-sex marriage within the first 100 days if re-elected. He says Labor MPs would be allowed a conscience vote on the issue and that he himself would vote ‘yes’.

But Opposition leader Tony Abbott’s position remains the same: the Coalition won’t introduce a same sex marriage bill and won’t allow a conscience vote. But they haven’t ruled out revisiting this decision after the election.


Quote:
Monsignor John Woods is the Acting Archbishop of Canberra. He told Insight the Catholic definition of marriage is a union between a man and a woman with the possibility of them bearing children.

“Marriage is unitive of a couple and open to the begetting and nurturing of children,” he said. “The procreative aspect of marriage requires not sameness but difference.

“Whatever respect and dignity afforded to people of homosexual orientation, for that status and dignity to be realised, does it require the status of marriage? Would that be to the individual and common good?”


Quote:
Labor Senator Penny Wong has told Insight that she does not want a plebiscite or a referendum on same sex marriage.


In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #217 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:26am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
Quote:
Labor Senator Penny Wong has told Insight that she does not want a plebiscite or a referendum on same sex marriage.

She believes the public discourse on same sex marriage lacks compassion and respect, and a referendum would likely fail.


Quote:
During the leaders’ debate, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced that the Labor government would introduce a bill on same-sex marriage within the first 100 days if re-elected. He says Labor MPs would be allowed a conscience vote on the issue and that he himself would vote ‘yes’.

But Opposition leader Tony Abbott’s position remains the same: the Coalition won’t introduce a same sex marriage bill and won’t allow a conscience vote. But they haven’t ruled out revisiting this decision after the election.


Quote:
Monsignor John Woods is the Acting Archbishop of Canberra. He told Insight the Catholic definition of marriage is a union between a man and a woman with the possibility of them bearing children.

“Marriage is unitive of a couple and open to the begetting and nurturing of children,” he said. “The procreative aspect of marriage requires not sameness but difference.

“Whatever respect and dignity afforded to people of homosexual orientation, for that status and dignity to be realised, does it require the status of marriage? Would that be to the individual and common good?”


Quote:
Labor Senator Penny Wong has told Insight that she does not want a plebiscite or a referendum on same sex marriage.


In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.

Yes, because Grendel knows.
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #218 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:28am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.



You might be able to tell us that, but can you back it up with any evidence?

So far, you've been wrong on every point.


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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #219 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:28am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.



Whenever I see the figures about how many gay couples want to get married, I roll my eyes. Its an irrelevant figure. Its about the right to choose if you want to get married. Not every straight couple wants to get married, does that mean we should ban straight marriages too?

I frankly don't care what gay couples do in terms of marriage. If people want to get married, fine. But I don't think it is societys place to deny people the right to choose to get married.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #220 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:29am
 
Yes Grendel does...
Happy for you and the coward minority to hold a referendum/pleb on it anytime.
It'll go down.
Just like Multiculti would have if Hawke had had the bottle to hold one...  he admitted he didn't because he knew they'd lose.
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #221 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:30am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:28am:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.



Whenever I see the figures about how many gay couples want to get married, I roll my eyes. Its an irrelevant figure. Its about the right to choose if you want to get married. Not every straight couple wants to get married, does that mean we should ban straight marriages too?

I frankly don't care what gay couples do in terms of marriage. If people want to get married, fine. But I don't think it is societys place to deny people the right to choose to get married.

Stop making sense. Grendel knows.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #222 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:31am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Yes Grendel does...
Happy for you and the coward minority to hold a referendum/pleb on it anytime.
It'll go down.
Just like Multiculti would have if Hawke had had the bottle to hold one...  he admitted he didn't because he knew they'd lose.

Why does it need a referendum?  We aren't changing the constitution, we are changing the Marriage Act. It was CHANGED in 2004 by Howard. If it can be changed in 2004, why can't it now be changed?
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Grendel
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #223 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:31am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:28am:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
In a pro gay marriage report only 54% of gay people wanted to get married.  I can tell you that this is a very inflated figure when compared to the whole of the gay community.



Whenever I see the figures about how many gay couples want to get married, I roll my eyes. Its an irrelevant figure. Its about the right to choose if you want to get married. Not every straight couple wants to get married, does that mean we should ban straight marriages too?

I frankly don't care what gay couples do in terms of marriage. If people want to get married, fine. But I don't think it is societys place to deny people the right to choose to get married.

If you choose to be gay...  you choose not to marry...  my gay friends tell me that on this issue all the time.
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #224 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:31am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Yes Grendel does...
Happy for you and the coward minority to hold a referendum/pleb on it anytime.
It'll go down.
Just like Multiculti would have if Hawke had had the bottle to hold one...  he admitted he didn't because he knew they'd lose.



...
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