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Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self. (Read 20911 times)
sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #330 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:16pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:53pm:
Karnal wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:35pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm:
Look, Karnal, some of what you say is valid, but you seriously never thought that Gillard was patronising, and spoke like a primary school teacher at times? Many people think this, not just me. Both critics and supporters of hers thought this.


Not on Q&A, which I always watch.

Some of her early performances as PM, I think, were a struggle: "the real Julia". Some of her pre-recorded messages to camera I recall being very patronizing, but I can't remember now what they were about.

Rudd, by contrast, was an automaton. His media coaching was obvious in his erratic hand gestures. He wasn't bad in the pre-recorded talking head stuff though. He did quite well with a script.

Gillard was the reverse. She was brilliant on the fly - she was on top of her briefs, gave detailed responses, and demonstrated a deep awareness of the issues - particularly economic issues.

What let her performance down, however, was her monotone delivery. She didn't change speed or pitch when she talked - it all came out in one long line - paced, polished.

With Gillard, we saw very little thinking. Gillard had an answer for everything - she was never ruffled. In the media, she was always polite. Compare this to Abbott, who thinks, stops, starts, and thinks again. This is not necessarily a weakness in Abbott's thinking style, but it's a weakness in his speaking style.

Likewise with Gillard - her performance did not demonstrate an ability to make better decisions, but it was an incredible skill. It did make her appear rather controlled, but they're all controlled. Gillard was an intelligent, organized and commanding personality. She was a brilliant communicator. She may well make a good academic. The writing and columns I've read of Gillard's were also good, although I'm not sure whether staffers wrote them. 

Although Gillard never showed an interest in discussing theory as PM, she clearly knows it, particularly on International Relations and the economy. She knew leaders can't appear to be smarty-pants - that people want leaders to be straight on their level.

This is Abbott's challenge. He likes grappling with ideas, but can't be seen to be fleshing them out - which is exactly what he does. People expect leaders to have all the answers, which is most unfair. Look at Hockey - he does well at looking human and falible. It's one reason we like him.

But he'll never make PM.



I do understand your point and agree with much of what you say, but let's not pretend that Gillard was completely infallible when talking with others. She was patronising when that lady in a Brisbane shopping centre asked her why she broke her word. At first she was okay, but as the 'interview' went on, she did begin to become a bit patronising, and for some strange reason was touching the lady on the shoulder. I do agree that she both Rudd and Abbott can become a bit more flustered than she does, but Abbott has never really patronised anyone, he just fumbles more. As I daod, I wouldn't really rate any of the three as great communicators with the public, they all had their respective strengths and weaknesses. I do completely agree about Hockey.

My personal picks for communicating with the public would be Bishop, Turnbull, Pyne, Albanese and Wong. Strangely enough, even Brown was good. Many people who would never even consider voting Green would listen to him. Milne is the complete opposite.


Pyne? COmmunicates well? 


Definitely. Pyne's problems aren't with his Mercurial wit, they're with his inability to restrain himself.

If Chris Pyne could learn when to stop talking, he'd be a very effective performer.

The fact he doesn't know when to shut up shows he isn't a good communicator. And the fact that he says utter nonsense sometimes is also evidence enough to suggest they should keep him far away from the media.
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matty
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #331 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:58pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:16pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:53pm:
Karnal wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:35pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm:
Look, Karnal, some of what you say is valid, but you seriously never thought that Gillard was patronising, and spoke like a primary school teacher at times? Many people think this, not just me. Both critics and supporters of hers thought this.


Not on Q&A, which I always watch.

Some of her early performances as PM, I think, were a struggle: "the real Julia". Some of her pre-recorded messages to camera I recall being very patronizing, but I can't remember now what they were about.

Rudd, by contrast, was an automaton. His media coaching was obvious in his erratic hand gestures. He wasn't bad in the pre-recorded talking head stuff though. He did quite well with a script.

Gillard was the reverse. She was brilliant on the fly - she was on top of her briefs, gave detailed responses, and demonstrated a deep awareness of the issues - particularly economic issues.

What let her performance down, however, was her monotone delivery. She didn't change speed or pitch when she talked - it all came out in one long line - paced, polished.

With Gillard, we saw very little thinking. Gillard had an answer for everything - she was never ruffled. In the media, she was always polite. Compare this to Abbott, who thinks, stops, starts, and thinks again. This is not necessarily a weakness in Abbott's thinking style, but it's a weakness in his speaking style.

Likewise with Gillard - her performance did not demonstrate an ability to make better decisions, but it was an incredible skill. It did make her appear rather controlled, but they're all controlled. Gillard was an intelligent, organized and commanding personality. She was a brilliant communicator. She may well make a good academic. The writing and columns I've read of Gillard's were also good, although I'm not sure whether staffers wrote them. 

Although Gillard never showed an interest in discussing theory as PM, she clearly knows it, particularly on International Relations and the economy. She knew leaders can't appear to be smarty-pants - that people want leaders to be straight on their level.

This is Abbott's challenge. He likes grappling with ideas, but can't be seen to be fleshing them out - which is exactly what he does. People expect leaders to have all the answers, which is most unfair. Look at Hockey - he does well at looking human and falible. It's one reason we like him.

But he'll never make PM.



I do understand your point and agree with much of what you say, but let's not pretend that Gillard was completely infallible when talking with others. She was patronising when that lady in a Brisbane shopping centre asked her why she broke her word. At first she was okay, but as the 'interview' went on, she did begin to become a bit patronising, and for some strange reason was touching the lady on the shoulder. I do agree that she both Rudd and Abbott can become a bit more flustered than she does, but Abbott has never really patronised anyone, he just fumbles more. As I daod, I wouldn't really rate any of the three as great communicators with the public, they all had their respective strengths and weaknesses. I do completely agree about Hockey.

My personal picks for communicating with the public would be Bishop, Turnbull, Pyne, Albanese and Wong. Strangely enough, even Brown was good. Many people who would never even consider voting Green would listen to him. Milne is the complete opposite.


Pyne? COmmunicates well?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin  did you just throw his name in because you needed 3 from the Libs? He is by far the WORST communicator they have.


Indeed, he does pretty well on Q & A. No bias here on my part, as I mentioned two of my least favourite Liberals, two Laborites and even a Green. If i were being biased I would have said Abbott, Sophie and Cory.
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matty
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #332 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:00pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:23pm:
Quote:
How do you know this? I've only ever heard the Gloria song at the very start and end of his show.


There you go, you see. Alan's entire show avoids bias - unlike the ridiculous so-called "our" ABC.


I don't know what you're on about, but I'd be interested to know what your thoughts were of the way that Gillard spoke to that lady in a Brisbane shopping centre?
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John Smith
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #333 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:00pm
 
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Of course I am beyond centre-right, but that doesn't make me extreme-right


it doesn't matter what you think, it's how others see you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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matty
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #334 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:01pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:41pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:13pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:10pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:18pm:
There have been a lot of replies since I last logged off, so if I have missed anyone's reply to me, I apologise.

But in address to a few comments made about my own personal leanings, let me say that extremist-right and religious-right are not necessarily synonymous. I identify as the latter, but not the former.

Anyone who puts religion into politics, whether left or right, is extreme.  There's a reason that religion should stay out of politics.


You're entitled to that opinion, and I am entitled to disagree.


Seriously? You think religion has a place in politics? Which religion? Yours i suppose - what about those that arent of your religion?  Perhaps you should go live in afghanistan or pakistan. They have theocracies more to your liking.

SOB


I think that basic Christian values and ethics always have their place in Australian politics.


What exactly are "basic xtian values"? (ive never met an xtian that has any truck with "ethics"). You mean the 10 silly unenforceable commandments? Before you go on about the "thou shalt not kill" that was around long before xtianity and look @ how we are killing ppl in afghanistan etc.

SOB


It depends. I wasn't referring exclusively to the Decalogue.
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Quantum
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #335 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:02pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:53pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:39pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:37pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:26pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:10pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:18pm:
There have been a lot of replies since I last logged off, so if I have missed anyone's reply to me, I apologise.

But in address to a few comments made about my own personal leanings, let me say that extremist-right and religious-right are not necessarily synonymous. I identify as the latter, but not the former.

Anyone who puts religion into politics, whether left or right, is extreme.  There's a reason that religion should stay out of politics.


You're entitled to that opinion, and I am entitled to disagree.


Seriously? You think religion has a place in politics? Which religion? Yours i suppose - what about those that arent of your religion?  Perhaps you should go live in afghanistan or pakistan. They have theocracies more to your liking.

SOB


If a gay politician pushed for gay marriage, would you be ok with that?


I wouldnt know if he was gay most prolly and who cares? Its not a religion and they wouldnt be pushing for everyone to be forced into their sexuality. Only concerns gays.

SOB


So you don't mind if people bring their personal life into decisions made in government?

you obviously don't.


Do you? Do think that if the government was to make a decision on gay marriage that those who are gay should be disqualified from having a say?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #336 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:03pm
 
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:58pm:
Indeed, he does pretty well on Q & A. No bias here on my part, as I mentioned two of my least favourite Liberals, two Laborites and even a Green. If i were being biased I would have said Abbott, Sophie and Cory.

He has the Morrison problem of constantly interrupting, shaking his head, and then giggling like a hyena. That doesn't mean he does well on Q&A, it means he is absolutely beyond sh1t.
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matty
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #337 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:04pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:56pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:17pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:12pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:02pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:57pm:
We've been discussing this for three years, but okay, I will bite. How so?

because you're extreme right?


Why? Because I am a Christian and I oppose homosexual marriage?

By the way, if you looked, you would see that I have never denied that I am right, and proudly so. Of course I am beyond centre-right, but that doesn't make me extreme-right.



Christmas is being stolen by those pesky muslims too, don't forget.


What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

shows your extremism Smiley  derr


Opposing extremist Muslims, homosexual marriage and being a Christian doesn't make someone a right-wing extremist.

By the way, how do you identify? Far-left, centre-left or in between?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #338 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:05pm
 
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:02pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:53pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:39pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:37pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:26pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:10pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:18pm:
There have been a lot of replies since I last logged off, so if I have missed anyone's reply to me, I apologise.

But in address to a few comments made about my own personal leanings, let me say that extremist-right and religious-right are not necessarily synonymous. I identify as the latter, but not the former.

Anyone who puts religion into politics, whether left or right, is extreme.  There's a reason that religion should stay out of politics.


You're entitled to that opinion, and I am entitled to disagree.


Seriously? You think religion has a place in politics? Which religion? Yours i suppose - what about those that arent of your religion?  Perhaps you should go live in afghanistan or pakistan. They have theocracies more to your liking.

SOB


If a gay politician pushed for gay marriage, would you be ok with that?


I wouldnt know if he was gay most prolly and who cares? Its not a religion and they wouldnt be pushing for everyone to be forced into their sexuality. Only concerns gays.

SOB


So you don't mind if people bring their personal life into decisions made in government?

you obviously don't.


Do you? Do think that if the government was to make a decision on gay marriage that those who are gay should be disqualified from having a say?   

I would say that if there was no community debate on the issue what so ever, then that person should not be trying to push the agenda based on their personal believes; especially on religious grounds, or sexual grounds. If there was a big community debate, and if people were largely in support of the issue, than I'd be more concerned with the religious nut jobs who tend to think their "personal morals based on their religion" are more important Grin
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #339 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:05pm
 
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:13pm:
I think that basic Christian values and ethics always have their place in Australian politics.


Why? Hardly anyone is a practising christian anymore. Time to shove that collection of guilt–inducing superstition into the rubbish bin and good riddance!
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #340 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:05pm
 
John Smith wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:00pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Of course I am beyond centre-right, but that doesn't make me extreme-right


it doesn't matter what you think, it's how others see you. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Like how myself and many others see Sale and Martin as left-wing?
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Grendel
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #341 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:08pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:03pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:58pm:
Indeed, he does pretty well on Q & A. No bias here on my part, as I mentioned two of my least favourite Liberals, two Laborites and even a Green. If i were being biased I would have said Abbott, Sophie and Cory.

He has the Morrison problem of constantly interrupting, shaking his head, and then giggling like a hyena. That doesn't mean he does well on Q&A, it means he is absolutely beyond sh1t.

Wow...  way to boost your credibility...  NOT!
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #342 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:15pm
 
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:39pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:37pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:26pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:10pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
matty wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:18pm:
There have been a lot of replies since I last logged off, so if I have missed anyone's reply to me, I apologise.

But in address to a few comments made about my own personal leanings, let me say that extremist-right and religious-right are not necessarily synonymous. I identify as the latter, but not the former.

Anyone who puts religion into politics, whether left or right, is extreme.  There's a reason that religion should stay out of politics.


You're entitled to that opinion, and I am entitled to disagree.


Seriously? You think religion has a place in politics? Which religion? Yours i suppose - what about those that arent of your religion?  Perhaps you should go live in afghanistan or pakistan. They have theocracies more to your liking.

SOB


If a gay politician pushed for gay marriage, would you be ok with that?


I wouldnt know if he was gay most prolly and who cares? Its not a religion and they wouldnt be pushing for everyone to be forced into their sexuality. Only concerns gays.

SOB


So you don't mind if people bring their personal life into decisions made in government?


Just because this hypothetical person is gay (and we know about it) doesnt mean it influenced his decision about freedom and equality. Just because thats what you would do does not mean everyone else would. What did i explain to you about projecting?

SOB
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Quantum
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #343 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:15pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:05pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:02pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:53pm:
Quantum wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:39pm:
So you don't mind if people bring their personal life into decisions made in government?

you obviously don't.


Do you? Do think that if the government was to make a decision on gay marriage that those who are gay should be disqualified from having a say?   

I would say that if there was no community debate on the issue what so ever, then that person should not be trying to push the agenda based on their personal believes; especially on religious grounds, or sexual grounds. If there was a big community debate, and if people were largely in support of the issue, than I'd be more concerned with the religious nut jobs who tend to think their "personal morals based on their religion" are more important Grin


So if there is no community debate, a gay person shouldn't push the agenda (someone should have told bob that years ago. He is part of the reason why there is such a debate), but if there is a community debate, I guess that means the gay person gets a say?
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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #344 - Feb 6th, 2014 at 5:16pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:29pm:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:45am:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:41am:
Oh god....  why do I have to keep repeating myself for you...  read some bloody posts will you!!!!!

The gay marriage lobby do not want a plebiscite or as they call it a referendum of the issue.

I've already stated this and explained why...  go fetch for the rest.  Roll Eyes



But why should we have one?  Is this not a decision that can be made by our representatives?

NO!!!!!
No no no no no.....
This is a big social change, if ya didn't realise.
This IMO requires the vote of the Australian people, not a handful of wannabies and career politicians, that don't represent me but their own vested interests.

Why is it a big social change?

Howard changed it in 2004 without a plebiscite...was it a huge social change then? Grin

How did I know you'd come out with this idiocy.  Not a major change??????  You are kidding or hugely demented or just plain stupid.
BTW Howard merely clarified the status quo.  That which has been for millenia.
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