Australian Politics Forum - Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #75 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:23pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:40pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:17pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:04pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

Audience: ALP 36%, Coalition 46%, Greens 10%

The number don't make sense. It is too consistent every single week. There has to be more to it.

The ABC must regulate the audience to keep those proportions. It would not be possible to get a random group of about 150 people each week and to always get about the same percentage. If they do regulate it, then something is still up, because the response of the audience doesn't fit the make up of it claimed by the ABC. Either the numbers don't include guests (not those on the panel, but those invited by those on the panel who may make up a considerable number in the room) or people are just lying about their affiliation to get on the show.

if they didnt regulate it would you scream bias?

No. Regulating it is useless if it only creates a false statistic. During the little spat between the Greens and Labor last year there was a few occasions when the greeny ripped into both Labor and Liberal. The crowd erupted in applause. No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

My issue of bias comes from the fact that the last two years the show has essentially rotated around three topics; Refugees, Gay marriage, and Climate Change. No matter what the focus that night is supposed to be it always comes back to those three topics. Funnily enough it the three things the greens never shut up on. Now it is not that those three issues are not relevant to either Liberal or Labor, but there are more to those two parties, as well as more things of importance in Australia than those three issues. That is where the bias is. Not so much the people on the show, but the issues that are continuously addressed as if that is all that really matters. The way the crowd responds to those three issues is also out of touch with the temperature of the wider community. If that was all that matters Milne would be PM right now and Brown before her. Clearly most people think there is more to Australia and Government than supporting these three areas. But you wouldn't know that by the boos and cheers from the crowd on Q&A.

So nobody should applaud if they are on the other side of politics? Is that what you are saying? Perhaps it just sounded like it anyway. to you.

SOB

You seem to have a habit of engaging with people who are - according to you - just "trolls". Is it worth me answering that question, or will you just reply with "go away troll" when you are once again shown to be wrong?

That is obviously a projection since it is you who does that. No its not worth answering because everyone knows the answer already.

SOB

F*ck your a laugh. There are only a few things you are know for (none of them are good) and one of them is saying "go away troll". Now you have the hide to say I'm projecting and that it is myself who does that?!?!?!

That Brisbane water has some seriously good shlt in it doesn't it? Seen any unicorns riding rainbows lately? Did they have star trek uniforms on by any chance?

Seriously? You are that dim that you thought that was what i was saying? Perhaps you need to learn some comprehension skills.

What i was saying was that you are projecting (a psychological term meaning you think other ppl are doing what you yourself are doing) about the habit of engaging with ppl who are trolls. You always show up whenever i make a comment then for once i actually reply to you about something and you say im doing it. (I actually didnt realise it was you until to late). You are a troll.

Meanwhile arent you breaking some rules there with that thinly disguised swearing? Reported.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self. Reply #76 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:26pm flip SOB
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #77 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:26pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:08pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

Can you substantiate that claim?

The actions of the audience is proof enough. When someone in the crowd gets up and attacks the two big parties and talks up the greens, then there wouldn't be a roar of applause by a crowd made up of mostly liberal and Labor voters. You wouldn't here such deafening boos when someone attack the greens. 10% is a minority. The cheering and booing is simply too loud for such a minority group.

But all that is irrelevant to the real question. How do the ABC know how many are in the room? They make the claim, where is their proof?

I always assumed they gave the audience survey cards before the show.

You apply weeks before, and they email you the date you'll be attending.

I've been in the audience twice (and I didn't lie about what party I'd vote for).

http://www2b.abc.net.au/AudienceBooking/Client/AudienceRegistration.aspx

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Quantum

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #78 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:08pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

Can you substantiate that claim?

The actions of the audience is proof enough. When someone in the crowd gets up and attacks the two big parties and talks up the greens, then there wouldn't be a roar of applause by a crowd made up of mostly liberal and Labor voters. You wouldn't here such deafening boos when someone attack the greens. 10% is a minority. The cheering and booing is simply too loud for such a minority group.

But all that is irrelevant to the real question. How do the ABC know how many are in the room? They make the claim, where is their proof?

I always assumed they gave the audience survey cards before the show.

Perhaps. But virtually every week the numbers are;

Green 10%
Liberal 45%
Labor 35%

give or take a percent or two. It is simply too consistent each week for it to be a random sample of the public. There should be weeks of 1% greens or even 50% greens if it was just a random 150 or so people walking through the door. For it to be almost the same numbers each week suggest filtering who gets in for the week. If they do indeed filter who gets in, then no doubt many will lie to make up the numbers.

There's nothing random about it.

Audience members have to register in order to get in.

As part of the registration, they're asked what party they would vote for.

It's no accident that the percentages are always pretty much the same.

http://www2b.abc.net.au/AudienceBooking/Client/AudienceRegistration.aspx

Roll Eyes

So there is a limit on how many greens can get in the door. About 10%. Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth? It would seem logical on a show that has such a focus on Green issues, and has such limited seat space for Green voters, that many Green supporters would lie so as to enter.

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self. Reply #79 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:37pm There seemed to be adifference in the Pell v Dawkins show. A shitload of Christians from what I remember
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139247 Gender:	Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self. Reply #80 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:38pm Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm: Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth? They don't. Do you?
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Quantum

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #81 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:40pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:23pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:40pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:17pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 1:04pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

Audience: ALP 36%, Coalition 46%, Greens 10%

The number don't make sense. It is too consistent every single week. There has to be more to it.

The ABC must regulate the audience to keep those proportions. It would not be possible to get a random group of about 150 people each week and to always get about the same percentage. If they do regulate it, then something is still up, because the response of the audience doesn't fit the make up of it claimed by the ABC. Either the numbers don't include guests (not those on the panel, but those invited by those on the panel who may make up a considerable number in the room) or people are just lying about their affiliation to get on the show.

if they didnt regulate it would you scream bias?

No. Regulating it is useless if it only creates a false statistic. During the little spat between the Greens and Labor last year there was a few occasions when the greeny ripped into both Labor and Liberal. The crowd erupted in applause. No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

My issue of bias comes from the fact that the last two years the show has essentially rotated around three topics; Refugees, Gay marriage, and Climate Change. No matter what the focus that night is supposed to be it always comes back to those three topics. Funnily enough it the three things the greens never shut up on. Now it is not that those three issues are not relevant to either Liberal or Labor, but there are more to those two parties, as well as more things of importance in Australia than those three issues. That is where the bias is. Not so much the people on the show, but the issues that are continuously addressed as if that is all that really matters. The way the crowd responds to those three issues is also out of touch with the temperature of the wider community. If that was all that matters Milne would be PM right now and Brown before her. Clearly most people think there is more to Australia and Government than supporting these three areas. But you wouldn't know that by the boos and cheers from the crowd on Q&A.

So nobody should applaud if they are on the other side of politics? Is that what you are saying? Perhaps it just sounded like it anyway. to you.

SOB

You seem to have a habit of engaging with people who are - according to you - just "trolls". Is it worth me answering that question, or will you just reply with "go away troll" when you are once again shown to be wrong?

That is obviously a projection since it is you who does that. No its not worth answering because everyone knows the answer already.

SOB

F*ck your a laugh. There are only a few things you are know for (none of them are good) and one of them is saying "go away troll". Now you have the hide to say I'm projecting and that it is myself who does that?!?!?!

That Brisbane water has some seriously good shlt in it doesn't it? Seen any unicorns riding rainbows lately? Did they have star trek uniforms on by any chance?

Seriously? You are that dim that you thought that was what i was saying? Perhaps you need to learn some comprehension skills.

What i was saying was that you are projecting (a psychological term meaning you think other ppl are doing what you yourself are doing) about the habit of engaging with ppl who are trolls. You always show up whenever i make a comment then for once i actually reply to you about something and you say im doing it. (I actually didnt realise it was you until to late). You are a troll.

Meanwhile arent you breaking some rules there with that thinly disguised swearing? Reported.

SOB

Worse excuse yet. You have outdone yourself once again. But I did like this part;

"Perhaps you need to learn some comprehension skills."

followed by;

"I actually didnt realise it was you until to late"

You can't even read a name and you want to lecture others on reading skills...

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John Smith

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #82 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:43pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

Audience: ALP 36%, Coalition 46%, Greens 10%

The number don't make sense. It is too consistent every single week. There has to be more to it.

The ABC must regulate the audience to keep those proportions. It would not be possible to get a random group of about 150 people each week and to always get about the same percentage. If they do regulate it, then something is still up, because the response of the audience doesn't fit the make up of it claimed by the ABC. Either the numbers don't include guests (not those on the panel, but those invited by those on the panel who may make up a considerable number in the room) or people are just lying about their affiliation to get on the show.

if they didnt regulate it would you scream bias?

No. Regulating it is useless if it only creates a false statistic. During the little spat between the Greens and Labor last year there was a few occasions when the greeny ripped into both Labor and Liberal. The crowd erupted in applause. No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

My issue of bias comes from the fact that the last two years the show has essentially rotated around three topics; Refugees, Gay marriage, and Climate Change. No matter what the focus that night is supposed to be it always comes back to those three topics. Funnily enough it the three things the greens never shut up on. Now it is not that those three issues are not relevant to either Liberal or Labor, but there are more to those two parties, as well as more things of importance in Australia than those three issues. That is where the bias is. Not so much the people on the show, but the issues that are continuously addressed as if that is all that really matters. The way the crowd responds to those three issues is also out of touch with the temperature of the wider community. If that was all that matters Milne would be PM right now and Brown before her. Clearly most people think there is more to Australia and Government than supporting these three areas. But you wouldn't know that by the boos and cheers from the crowd on Q&A.

maybe liberal and labor voters disagreed with their own parties stance on whatever issue they were talking about ... not another one like Matty. I can be a labor voter without having to agree to every single thing they say or do ...

the fact is some of the things they do or say I don't agree with. Does that mean I'm suddenly a liberal voter? Not a chance, because as much as I disagree on a few things with labor, I disagree on a lot more things with the libs.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #83 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:43pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:37pm:

There seemed to be adifference in the Pell v Dawkins show. A shitload of Christians from what I remember

I don't know what religion the audience members were.

"Audience: ALP 31%, Coalition 47%, Greens 13%"

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3469101.htm

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Quantum

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #84 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth?

They don't.

Do you?

Stop with the stupid games. I already said that the actions of the crowd does not fit the numbers. If you now admit that the ABC don't know the actual numbers, then quoting them as a fact is waste of time. The ABC do not know if there are only 10% greens in the crowd, so their numbers are not proof that that is all that is there.

Why do you actually think that this type of debating is constructive? It is just circles for no reason.

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John Smith

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #85 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth?

They don't.

Do you?

Stop with the stupid games. I already said that the actions of the crowd does not fit the numbers. If you now admit that the ABC don't know the actual numbers, then quoting them as a fact is waste of time. The ABC do not know if there are only 10% greens in the crowd, so their numbers are not proof that that is all that is there.

Why do you actually think that this type of debating is constructive? It is just circles for no reason.

because all you are doing is saying they are lying ... anyone can say that about anyone who makes a claim they disagree with, it do you think this type of debating is constructive?

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Quantum

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #86 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:50pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 11:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 10:46am:

Audience: ALP 36%, Coalition 46%, Greens 10%

The number don't make sense. It is too consistent every single week. There has to be more to it.

The ABC must regulate the audience to keep those proportions. It would not be possible to get a random group of about 150 people each week and to always get about the same percentage. If they do regulate it, then something is still up, because the response of the audience doesn't fit the make up of it claimed by the ABC. Either the numbers don't include guests (not those on the panel, but those invited by those on the panel who may make up a considerable number in the room) or people are just lying about their affiliation to get on the show.

if they didnt regulate it would you scream bias?

No. Regulating it is useless if it only creates a false statistic. During the little spat between the Greens and Labor last year there was a few occasions when the greeny ripped into both Labor and Liberal. The crowd erupted in applause. No way was there only 10% greens in the room. It would be better to say nothing about political affiliation, but if they must have a count, then let it be what ever is. If there are 50% greens voters in the room, so be it. Better that then only allow 10% in and have the other 40% pretending to be Labor or Liberal voters just to get in the door. It is just a façade of political balance in the crowd where none exist.

My issue of bias comes from the fact that the last two years the show has essentially rotated around three topics; Refugees, Gay marriage, and Climate Change. No matter what the focus that night is supposed to be it always comes back to those three topics. Funnily enough it the three things the greens never shut up on. Now it is not that those three issues are not relevant to either Liberal or Labor, but there are more to those two parties, as well as more things of importance in Australia than those three issues. That is where the bias is. Not so much the people on the show, but the issues that are continuously addressed as if that is all that really matters. The way the crowd responds to those three issues is also out of touch with the temperature of the wider community. If that was all that matters Milne would be PM right now and Brown before her. Clearly most people think there is more to Australia and Government than supporting these three areas. But you wouldn't know that by the boos and cheers from the crowd on Q&A.

maybe liberal and labor voters disagreed with their own parties stance on whatever issue they were talking about ... not another one like Matty. I can be a labor voter without having to agree to every single thing they say or do ...

the fact is some of the things they do or say I don't agree with. Does that mean I'm suddenly a liberal voter? Not a chance, because as much as I disagree on a few things with labor, I disagree on a lot more things with the libs.

Of course many will disagree with their own party on one thing or another. But I cannot imagine a Labor or Liberal voter cheering like a school girl when a green member gets up and says that the two big parties are no good and you should vote for the greens. So when stuff like that happens Q&A, why does the entire bloody studio shake with applause when there are only 10% greens in the building? It is fairly clear by the crowds behaviour that the numbers mean shlt.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #87 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:51pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth?

They don't.

Do you?

Stop with the stupid games. I already said that the actions of the crowd does not fit the numbers. If you now admit that the ABC don't know the actual numbers, then quoting them as a fact is waste of time. The ABC do not know if there are only 10% greens in the crowd, so their numbers are not proof that that is all that is there.

Quantum: "The actions of the audience is proof enough."

Such as the act of filling in the online registration form?

Or, only the actions that support your argument?

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Quantum

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #88 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:52pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

Now how does the ABC know who is telling the truth?

They don't.

Do you?

Stop with the stupid games. I already said that the actions of the crowd does not fit the numbers. If you now admit that the ABC don't know the actual numbers, then quoting them as a fact is waste of time. The ABC do not know if there are only 10% greens in the crowd, so their numbers are not proof that that is all that is there.

Why do you actually think that this type of debating is constructive? It is just circles for no reason.

because all you are doing is saying they are lying ... anyone can say that about anyone who makes a claim they disagree with, it do you think this type of debating is constructive?

Who am I saying is lying?

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John Smith

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Re: Q & A/ABC back to its usual biased self.
Reply #89 - Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:54pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 5^th, 2014 at 2:50pm:

Of course many will disagree with their own party on one thing or another. But I cannot imagine a Labor or Liberal voter cheering like a school girl when a green member gets up and says that the two big parties are no good and you should vote for the greens. So when stuff like that happens Q&A, why does the entire bloody studio shake with applause when there are only 10% greens in the building? It is fairly clear by the crowds behaviour that the numbers mean shlt

no, was is clear is that your interpretation (and thats all it is) of the audiences behaviour means sh1t .. I watched almost every episode of Q&A and I've never seen anyone 'cheering like a school girl' ...

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