Australian Politics Forum - 25 broken promise in 150 days

Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #195 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:50am

Aussie wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 6:59pm:

Quote:

I asked for evidence. I asked more than once. Since you didn't provide any (despite being asked more than once), here is the evidence that you seem unable to provide.

I didn't see any original question but I did answer it anyway in my comments.

The Policy is as I stated and more fully how Aussie quoted it. Did you miss them?

The policy as Abbott has stated and clarified many times and as it has been repeated here was TURN BACK THE BOATS... how they do that is up to the people at the coalface. No boat has to my knowledge been found in our waters and towed back to Indonesia. The TOW Back cry was Labor propaganda.

It isn't confusing or rocket science.
I wasn't wrong or avoiding answering you that is being very disingenuous to say so.

Hang on Grendel. The policy was to 'turn back boats.....where it was safe to do so.'

That's right I agree and I acknowledged you...

It was not....."Stalk, wait until they get inside our waters, pounce, put fingers in ears and not hear claims for asylum, take them off the fishing boat, load them into an orange boat, and then tow them out of Australia, through international high seas, and when they get near to, or even beyond Indonesian territory, let them loose."

Don't be a bloody idiot all the time... be happy you get credit for being right occasionally.

That is the only logical explanation for what we have seen, and that was not what the lying prick took the election.

There ya going being an idiot again.

That's typical dumb from you, Grendel. How about you do better than crap ad hom and address the points made. Any chance of that happening, Grendel?

wassup Aussie... sock drawer open?
Trying to garner support for the unsupportable nonsense above? Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #196 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:52am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:01pm:

I also note that the rightards have not bothered to refute most of the items on this list. I note this tacit acceptance of this long list of broken promises.

Well I told you why I'm not going to do it. It was so stupid I couldn't even be bothered reading it all. Why would you waste time refuting idiocy and lies?

Your task is to explain why you think "it was so stupid".

Your failure to do so is quite telling.

If you are so concerned your task is to explain to me why it actually isn't stupid...
As usual, I won't be holding my breath. Roll Eyes

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Bam

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #197 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:27am

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:39pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 7:58pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 6:59pm:

The policy as Abbott has stated and clarified many times and as it has been repeated here was TURN BACK THE BOATS... how they do that is up to the people at the coalface. No boat has to my knowledge been found in our waters and towed back to Indonesia. The TOW Back cry was Labor propaganda.

Nonsense. Are you denying the existence of the footage?

Now you are just being plain annoying... and wrong. TOW BACK THE BOATS WAS LABOR PROPAGANDA... personally I don't care if they tow boats a little way or part way or even the bloody whole way as long as the boats are TURNED BACK!!!

Yes, it must irk you to know that I have a point that you have difficulty refuting.

Did Abbott say this and what exactly did he mean by this? "Can I just scotch this idea that the Coalition’s policy is or ever has been tow-backs. Our policy, which we have repeated till we are blue in the face, is that we reserve the right to turn boats around where it is safe to do so. There is a world of difference between turning boats around in Australian waters and the Australian Navy towing them back to Indonesia."
What is going on in the following picture, Grendel?

If you think I'm wrong, you have two choices. Prove what you say or stop whining.

Quote:

Quote:

So why are boats being towed after Abbott specifically denied this would happen?

OMG.... were the boats towed back from where they were intercepted to the Indonesian mainland? You got a quote where Abbott said boats would not be towed any distance if necessary? Or are you making that up too? THE POLICY was TURN BACK THE BOATS.... Labor called it TOW BACK the Boats... the lifeboats are motorised they go back under their own power as do as Aussie suggested boats "where it is safe to do so."

I provided a link. I provided a link because you refused to do so despite being asked more than once. Perhaps you should have clicked it and read it instead of deleting it, pretending it did not exist, and then complaining. If you're going to ignore a link and then be disingenuous about it that is not my problem.

Quote:

Quote:

or avoiding answering you

You are cropping out much of my response though. Why are you trying to deny the undeniable?

You are being pedantic to the point of stupidity, I expect that from others not you.

So I'm taking the trouble to get the facts right and you delete most of my response, pretend it didn't exist, and then call it "pedantic" when I remind you? What a load of rubbish. I expected better of you. It is better to get the facts right rather than being lazy, disingenuous and deceitful like you are doing.

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that is being very disingenuous to say so.

That's the pot calling the kettle black. You are being disingenuous, cropping out those parts of my response that you cannot refute (that is, most of it) and then pretending I never said it.

I haven't cropped out anything....

Oh, really? You deleted three paragraphs and a link, none of which you bothered to respond to.

Here is what you cropped out and then falsely claimed you didn't crop out:
Bam wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 10:37pm:

Abbott splitting hairs on the difference between towing and turning back the boats. (ABC Fact Check)

The trouble is, you appear to be wrong. You have claimed: "The official policy never was tow back... that was labor misquoting and propaganda." Yet we have clear video footage of one of those orange lifeboats that the government purchased earlier, connected to an Australian warship by a rope and apparently being towed somewhere at sea. If that's not a boat being towed, what is it?

Quote:

Lots of people post crap and wrong things here, I try to be much more accurate and correct.
Are you denying what I said is correct?
If not fine, I have no idea why you think i'm responsible for the errors of others.

You're not a raving loony like some of the other posters here (on both sides). At least you bothered to respond; chickenlips apparently ran away and hid in some dark corner.

But you may be wrong, if that inconvenient video footage is indeed a boat load of asylum seekers being towed by an Australian warship - a policy that you claimed did not exist.

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Bam

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #198 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:30am

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:01pm:

I also note that the rightards have not bothered to refute most of the items on this list. I note this tacit acceptance of this long list of broken promises.

Well I told you why I'm not going to do it. It was so stupid I couldn't even be bothered reading it all. Why would you waste time refuting idiocy and lies?

Handwaving is not a refutation.

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Bam

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #199 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:36am

In the interest of fairness, I will provide a quotation for the complete question and answer from Abbott and Bishop's press conference in Jakarta on October 1, 2013. In my previous post there was insufficient space to post it in full due to the character limit.

Joint Press Conference with Minister Julie Bishop, Jakarta - October 1 2013 (www.pm.gov.au)
Quote:

QUESTION:

At the risk of trying to generate a story, you said last night that Australia respected Indonesia’s sovereignty. The Indonesian Foreign Minister this morning has said we’ll have to wait and see on that. Now, do you see a way where some of Australia’s policies under the Coalition like tow backs and the payments to villagers for boats etcetera can be implemented without compromising Indonesian sovereignty?

PRIME MINISTER:

Look, just a few observations and then I might ask Julie to add to it because Julie has been having very detailed discussions with Marty Natalegawa, as in coming weeks Scott Morrison will have with Minister Suyanto, the Coordinating Security Minister. Can I just scotch this idea that the Coalition’s policy is or ever has been tow-backs. Our policy, which we have repeated till we are blue in the face, is that we reserve the right to turn boats around where it is safe to do so. There is a world of difference between turning boats around in Australian waters and the Australian Navy towing them back to Indonesia. There is just a world of difference and if I may say so, there has been a tendency of people to put to other people what is not the Coalition’s policy in an attempt to, I think, generate a headline rather than constructively address this issue. So, everything was on the table yesterday. Nothing was off limits yesterday and the clear agreement is that operational details will be dealt with on a no surprises basis at Ministerial and officials level. And on the subject of sovereignty Sid, look, we are fair dinkum about doing what we can to help Indonesia in every way and you might be aware of the fact that there were some people who turned up in the Torres Strait last week wanting to grandstand about issues in Papua. Well, very swiftly under the MOU with PNG, they went back to PNG. There was a Freedom Flotilla that wanted to set off from Australia. Well, one way or another it didn’t get very far and we want to do everything we reasonably can to demonstrate to the Government and the people of Indonesia that we respect Indonesia’s sovereignty. We want to work with Indonesia to ensure that Indonesia is strong in the years ahead because Indonesia is a future global leader and we want to be its trusted partner on this journey.

Julie?

MINISTER BISHOP:

Thanks Prime Minister. As would be evident over a number of years Foreign Minister Natalegawa and I have communicated regularly on a range of issues from when I was in Opposition and now as Foreign Minister. We have been in touch on many occasions. We spent a lot of time together last week in New York meeting at bilaterals, trilaterals and quadrilaterals and other forums. So, we have had many opportunities to discuss a range of issues and indeed one of our conversations ended up in a transcript that ended up in the media. That was a mistake and Foreign Minister Natalegawa has indicated that it was not meant to happen, it was unintended, but that being the case you would have seen from that version of the conversation that very detailed matters were addressed, very detailed. So, we have an open and candid relationship. We talk about operational matters but we agreed that we wouldn’t discuss them through the media because it would be counterproductive for what we are both trying to achieve. Indonesia wants to dismantle the people smuggling trade that is occurring within their borders. Indonesia wants to stop the deaths at sea. Indonesia wants to stop the boats taking to the waters between Australia and Indonesia because it is a very dangerous journey as we have seen in recent days. So, the relationship between our two countries is very candid, very open, as evident not only by the discussions I have on a frequent basis with Foreign Minister Natalegawa but also the discussions we had yesterday with the Cabinet. For us to go into operational minutia would defeat the very purpose, the joint purpose that Australia and Indonesia are seeking to achieve and that is to stop these boats.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #200 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:46am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:52am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:01pm:

I also note that the rightards have not bothered to refute most of the items on this list. I note this tacit acceptance of this long list of broken promises.

Well I told you why I'm not going to do it. It was so stupid I couldn't even be bothered reading it all. Why would you waste time refuting idiocy and lies?

Your task is to explain why you think "it was so stupid".

Your failure to do so is quite telling.

If you are so concerned your task is to explain to me why it actually isn't stupid...

Incorrect. The onus is on you.

However, we all know that you won't be presenting any evidence to substantiate your claim.

You never provide evidence to support any of your claims. All you have are ill-informed opinions, which you mistakenly interpret as facts.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days Reply #201 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:57am Peccerhead....
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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days Reply #202 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:58am Nice self portrait, boofy.
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FriYAY Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7395	Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days Reply #203 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:03am Who cares? All semantic rubbish. Has anyone seen a boat towed all the way back to Indonesia? Stop the country shopping illegals, by any means.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #204 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:06am

skippy. wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

Nice self portrait, boofy.

Exactly.

The ultimate troll, our little Grendel.

Ill-informed opinions, backed up with ... well ... absolutely nothing.

He either a) doesn't know how to cut & paste and cite references, or b) honestly believes that one's opinions are the same as facts.

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Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #205 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:50am

Bam wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:27am:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:39pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 7:58pm:

[quote author=grendel link=1391836204/186#186 date=1392195578]The policy as Abbott has stated and clarified many times and as it has been repeated here was TURN BACK THE BOATS... how they do that is up to the people at the coalface. No boat has to my knowledge been found in our waters and towed back to Indonesia. The TOW Back cry was Labor propaganda.

Nonsense. Are you denying the existence of the footage?

Now you are just being plain annoying... and wrong. TOW BACK THE BOATS WAS LABOR PROPAGANDA... personally I don't care if they tow boats a little way or part way or even the bloody whole way as long as the boats are TURNED BACK!!!

Yes, it must irk you to know that I have a point that you have difficulty refuting.

I repeat I didn't crop anything...
The only time things may get left off is because the site won't allow that many embedded quotes, someone edits my post or it has no relevance to my reply. I don't crop stuff to be deceptive as you are implying I'm not a dishonest person.
You have no point I have difficulty refuting if I think it needs refuting.
I'm not an Abbott fan I didn't even vote for him so enough of the shyt.
The policy was TURN BACK THE BOATS the quote on the site states clearly what Abbott said about the Labor LIE... even Aussie knows what the policy was.
I might not like or vote for someone but I won't lie about them, I'm not a rusted-on tribal idiot voter.
I find it amusing and very hypocritical that you seem to find this so called "broken" promise so important when Gillard's blatant broken promise was much more important and was soooo clearly stated. I have been BTW a big Gillard fan... but she turned out to be a shyt PM.

The boats have not been towed back to Indonesia.
That was not Liberal policy.
Personally I don't care how they stop these criminal idiots coming here in boats as long as they do.

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Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #206 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:51am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:06am:

skippy. wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

Nice self portrait, boofy.

Exactly.

The ultimate troll, our little Grendel.

Ill-informed opinions, backed up with ... well ... absolutely nothing.

He either a) doesn't know how to cut & paste and cite references, or b) honestly believes that one's opinions are the same as facts.

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/DorkKnight/GrampaSimpson-ColumnA-B.gif

More trolling?
I'd report you and your crap if I was like you or the other more delicate LW Progs here.
get personal with someone else TROLL...

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Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #207 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 11:00am

Quote:

2. What is going on in the following picture, Grendel?

...
If you think I'm wrong, you have two choices. Prove what you say or stop whining.

I think there is no room on board that particular vessel to store and launch that type of lifeboat. I think it's being towed... which would be normal procedure.

What do you think?

I suggest you take it up with customs or the navy, I don't have contacts there.

I think that these lifeboats are tied up to allow safe entry to the vessel.
I think they may be towed back to Indonesian waters... not the Indonesian mainland, on occassion, to make sure those on board can reach landfall safely and bid a fond farewell.
Personally I'd tow em back to their port of departure and call the Indonesian authorities and have them all arrested and the people smugglers but we know how corrupt many Indonesians are and we know they want the money and this is a way to rid themselves of these "undesirables"... win-win for them... we all know they refuse to agree with the idea or returning them to the mainland via tow back... which is why it is not happening and why it was never POLICY

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skippy.

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #208 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 11:06am

Grendel wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:06am:

skippy. wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

Nice self portrait, boofy.

Exactly.

The ultimate troll, our little Grendel.

Ill-informed opinions, backed up with ... well ... absolutely nothing.

He either a) doesn't know how to cut & paste and cite references, or b) honestly believes that one's opinions are the same as facts.

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/DorkKnight/GrampaSimpson-ColumnA-B.gif

More trolling?
I'd report you and your crap if I was like you or the other more delicate LW Progs here.
get personal with someone else TROLL...

Why don't you do that, boofy? The fact you posted a pic and said it was greg will no doubt work in your favour, NOT. No wonder you're the forums whipping boy. Roll Eyes

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Grendel

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Re: 25 broken promise in 150 days
Reply #209 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 11:21am

Bam wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Grendel wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:01pm:

I also note that the rightards have not bothered to refute most of the items on this list. I note this tacit acceptance of this long list of broken promises.

Well I told you why I'm not going to do it. It was so stupid I couldn't even be bothered reading it all. Why would you waste time refuting idiocy and lies?

Handwaving is not a refutation.

Well I'm not waving my hand and I'm frankly sick of your inferences particularly when I'm more than courteous to you on most occasions.
If you cannot see the reasons I find them stupid not to mention biased then why would I bother?
How about the ridicule etc at the start of the article with the images? Do you honestly think this is going to be an unbiased article. Since when has this group been unbiased or even credible journalists? How about the lie "Pretty clear. No tow ropes".... talk about flippant idiocy.
This...
“Can I just scotch this idea that the Coalition’s policy is or ever has been tow-backs … There is a world of difference between turning boats around in Australian waters and the Australian Navy towing them back to Indonesia.”

Does not mean No Tow Ropes... of course as a matter of normal procedure and safety there will be TOW ROPES.

It means boats will be turned around... but won't be getting towed back to Indonesian ports.

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