Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #120 - Feb 13^th, 2014 at 11:37pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:05pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

AND IN ANY CASE, i am told that ignorance of the law, is not an excuse for criminal behaviour.

It is according to your religion

Oh ?

In defence of Islam
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1309087370/44#44
Quote:

THE PENALTY - If a soul shall sin through ignorance
...a 'monetary' penalty [i.e. the cost of a sin offering] would be exacted from an offender.

But his/her death is NOT required, .....for a 'sin through ignorance' against God's commandment, normally requiring death, as punishment.

The God of Israel is a just and righteous God.

The God of Israel will not slay any person who, 'sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD'.

Leviticus 4:27
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

Numbers 15:22
And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
23 Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;
24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.
25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Leviticus 4:1-4
Leviticus 4:22-24
Leviticus 5:15-19

GOD'S LAW - 'judgments so righteous' - 'what nation...hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law'

Deuteronomy 4:1
Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them,
that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Stratos,

My God maintains the purity of his people, through the judgement of [and against] his people.

The judgements of God, against wrongdoers, facilitates the cleansing the land of its defilement, caused by the wrongdoer(s).

Deuteronomy 17:6
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Deuteronomy 19:18
And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

Proverbs 28:5
Evil men understand not judgment:...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Adamant

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #121 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 8:52am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 11:11am:

Stop whinging adamant

I am not whinging, just learning the rules, for instance I know it is ok to lie, plagiarise and breach copyright on this forum and will endeavour to be a high achiever in all these areas.

I also learnt it is accepted by the muslim community to have sex with underage girls, this I do not agree to but feel sure I can leave it in your more than capable hands.

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #122 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 9:33am Just out of interest, what is this breach of copyright and plagiarism you keep referring to?
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wally1

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #123 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 11:58am

Apparently in Lebanon its illegal to be married under the age of 17,

In Lebanon Article 4 of the Family Rights Act which governs the Sunni personal status stipulates for the bridegroom to possess legal capacity for marriage to be at least 18 years old and for the bride to be 17’.

Even in Pakistan child marriage is outlawed,

under the Child Marriage Restraint Act 1929 (No XIX). Under the Act, the minimum age for marriage is 18 years for a male and 16 years for a female (section 2) .[10] Contravention is punishable with a fine of Rs.1000 and an imprisonment of one month or both for

An adult male (above 18 years of age) who contracts marriage with a child (section 4) .[11]
A person who solemnizes a child marriage (section 5) .[12]
A parent or guardian who does not act to prevent a child marriage (section 6) .[13]

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Adamant

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #124 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 3:42pm

wally1 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

Apparently in Lebanon its illegal to be married under the age of 17,

In Lebanon Article 4 of the Family Rights Act which governs the Sunni personal status stipulates for the bridegroom to possess legal capacity for marriage to be at least 18 years old and for the bride to be 17’.

Even in Pakistan child marriage is outlawed,

under the Child Marriage Restraint Act 1929 (No XIX). Under the Act, the minimum age for marriage is 18 years for a male and 16 years for a female (section 2) .[10] Contravention is punishable with a fine of Rs.1000 and an imprisonment of one month or both for

An adult male (above 18 years of age) who contracts marriage with a child (section 4) .[11]
A person who solemnizes a child marriage (section 5) .[12]
A parent or guardian who does not act to prevent a child marriage (section 6) .[13]

Who gives a Shiite it still happens.

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #125 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 4:31pm Adamant wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 3:42pm: Who gives a Shiite it still happens. I see what you did there
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Datalife Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2405 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #126 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 4:45pm wally1 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 11:58am: Even in Pakistan child marriage is outlawed, Goodo, inform the UN, they can stop stressing about all the child brides, cos its illegal.
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True Colours Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2837 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #127 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm So if we believe what the church teaches, Joseph would be locked up today for marrying 12 year-old Mary. According to Australian law the Judeo-Christian tradition is built on pedophilia.
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wally1

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #128 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

Adamant wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 3:42pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

Apparently in Lebanon its illegal to be married under the age of 17,

In Lebanon Article 4 of the Family Rights Act which governs the Sunni personal status stipulates for the bridegroom to possess legal capacity for marriage to be at least 18 years old and for the bride to be 17’.

Even in Pakistan child marriage is outlawed,

under the Child Marriage Restraint Act 1929 (No XIX). Under the Act, the minimum age for marriage is 18 years for a male and 16 years for a female (section 2) .[10] Contravention is punishable with a fine of Rs.1000 and an imprisonment of one month or both for

An adult male (above 18 years of age) who contracts marriage with a child (section 4) .[11]
A person who solemnizes a child marriage (section 5) .[12]
A parent or guardian who does not act to prevent a child marriage (section 6) .[13]

Who gives a Shiite it still happens.

Running a red light is also illegal but people still do it

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #129 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:41pm True Colours wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm: So if we believe what the church teaches, Joseph would be locked up today for marrying 12 year-old Mary. Where is this info from?
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21593 A cat with a view	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #130 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:47pm Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:41pm: True Colours wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm: So if we believe what the church teaches, Joseph would be locked up today for marrying 12 year-old Mary. Where is this info from? It is certainly NOT, scriptural.
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Datalife Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2405 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #131 - Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:53pm True Colours wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm: So if we believe what the church teaches, Joseph would be locked up today for marrying 12 year-old Mary. According to Australian law the Judeo-Christian tradition is built on pedophilia. Well not then but depending where Joseph lives possibly now.
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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #132 - Feb 15^th, 2014 at 4:06pm

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 6:59am:

Should the cleric have alerted the authorities when the pedophile approached him and asked him to perform the marriage rites? Do you expect these people are aware of more such cases within the community?

Should they be "culturalising" the Muslim community that it is wrong to have sex with children?

I suspect that you are just baiting me, but obviously 'yes' on all counts. The islamic community should be taking more responsibility as I said from the beginning.

You avoided my question earlier about being sensitive to the religious beliefs of Muslims. If asking you a question counts as "baiting", then yes I was baiting you. I was trying to trick you into answering a question. Sorry about that.

I think it said in the paper this week that they had a wedding ceremony that was presided over by an Imam. If so, I think this raises serious questions about the ability of the Muslim community to reject and stamp out this behaviour, and the criminality of the father, imam and others who enabled this crime.

Great news:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/imam-charged-with-solemnising-underage-marriage-20140211-32dqn.html

Imam charged with solemnising underage marriage

Police have arrested and charged an imam accused of conducting the marriage of a 12-year-old girl in the Hunter Valley this year.

Detectives from the Child Abuse Squad arrested the 35-year-old Pakistan-born man outside Parramatta police station about 4.30pm on Monday afternoon, police said.

They charged him with solemnisation of a marriage by an unauthorised person.

Police will allege he agreed to conduct a ceremony after he was approached by a 26-year-old man, who was eager to marry the girl.
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The 26-year-old, a Lebanese man who is living in Australia on a student visa, has been charged with 25 counts of having sexual intercourse with an underage child.

He is in custody and is expected to make an application for bail before Burwood Local Court on Wednesday.

It had been reported the imam had gone to ground.

"He was located outside the police station," a police spokesman said.

"It wasn't arrest by appointment or anything like that, just that we happened to find him outside the police station."

The spokesman said the imam was not related to the girl.

The imam was released on strict conditional bail and is expected to appear before Parramatta Local Court on April 2.

Child abuse detectives told Fairfax Media the imam had been associated with an Islamic centre in the Hunter region "on and off" since 2009.

It is understood he is no longer associated with the centre or mosque.

"We don't know if he has done it before. But there is no evidence to suggest he has conducted a marriage before," a detective said.

Police have not laid charges against the father of the girl, but investigations continue.

Detectives allege the father allowed his daughter to be married to the 26-year-old at his house in a private Islamic ceremony on January 12.

The child and the 26-year-old had been living in south-west Sydney since early January.

Police were made aware of the marriage when the 26-year-old tried to obtain legal guardianship of the girl at Centrelink after she expressed a wish to attend high school.

The girl, who is now aged 13, is now living in foster care.

It is understood NSW Police Deputy Commissioner Nick Kaldas will address the media about the marriage at a press conference today.

Investigations by the Child Abuse Squad are continuing, police said.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #133 - Feb 15^th, 2014 at 4:10pm

I think this is a better approach than waiting for the Muslim community to deal with these issues.

TC, thanks for giving the Muslim perspective on why pedophilia is so hard to eradicate in the Muslim community.

Father charged over alleged marriage of 12yo daughter in Hunter region

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-12/61-year-old-man-charged-over-alleged-underage-marriage-in-newca/5254962

A man accused of consenting to the marriage of his 12-year-old daughter in an illegal ceremony in New South Wales has been remanded in custody.

The 61-year-old man is accused of giving his blessing to the illegal marriage, alleged to have taken place at his home in the Hunter region in January.

Raymond Terrace Local Court heard the man believes he has done nothing wrong and thought his daughter was deeply in love.

In denying bail the magistrate said it is clear the man has a disregard for the laws of the state.

Police have charged the 61-year-old with procuring a child under 14 for illegal sexual activity and being an accessory.

He was arrested by detectives at Raymond Terrace Police Station just before 9am (AEDT).

The girl, now 13, was married to a 26-year-old man, whose case was mentioned in Burwood Local Court today.

He remains in custody charged with multiple counts of sexual intercourse with a child.

A Muslim cleric, Riaz Tasawar, who was until recently the imam at the Mayfield mosque in the region, has also been arrested over the illegal union.

The imam is accused of conducting the marriage.

He has been granted bail to face court in April on a charge of solemnisation of a marriage by an unauthorised person.

Investigations by the State Crime Command's Child Abuse Squad are continuing.

Debate about the extent of child marriages

The case has sparked debate about how widespread is the problem of illegal child marriages.

A children's legal centre says it has identified 250 cases of forced child marriages in the past two years.

National Children's and Youth Law Centre director Matthew Keely says the numbers of forced child marriage are likely to be much higher than the reported figure, with up to 80 cases in one capital city alone.

"Those 250 cases that we identified over 24 months are just the tip of the iceberg," he said.

"All the literature, all the understandings in this space acknowledges that this is a grossly under-reported occurrence so the numbers are going to be much higher."

However, Maha Abdo from the Muslim Women's Association says while she is concerned by the reports, she believes it is unusual in her community, contrary to some media reports.

"We as an organisation that deals with domestic violence and support women in that and child abuse have not heard or seen a case like that at all," she said.

New South Wales Minister for Women Pru Goward has written to her federal counterpart Michaelia Cash to ask for national awareness campaigns on underage and forced marriage.

A spokesman for Senator Cash says she is working with the Minister for Justice on the subject.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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BigOl64

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #134 - Feb 15^th, 2014 at 4:17pm

True Colours wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm:

So if we believe what the church teaches, Joseph would be locked up today for marrying 12 year-old Mary.

According to Australian law the Judeo-Christian tradition is built on pedophilia.

Good thing you made that bullsh1t up, otherwise you'd look like like a total smacking retard

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