Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

Soren

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #240 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 11:37pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

Excellent work, old boy. You’ve done it.

I hate to be picky, but they are trying to raise the age to 18.

Trying. You didn't ask me to give you one - 1 - Muslim jurisdiction where there is NO age limit but are trying to introduce one.

And Yemen, which you inexplicably left off in your reply, is another one - 1 - of those Muslim jurisdictions where there is no age limit. They had one but it is now abolished. So they are not even trying.

Qatar has no age limit either. That another one - 1 - Muslim jurisdiction.

You may start your usual idiotic jibberish and PB tap dancing now. Or rather continue, I should say.

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2014 at 5:34am by Soren »

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #241 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 12:53am

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 9:58pm:

Mohamed had multiple wives.A Muslim man can't have mutilple wives and limit is 4 and must treat them all fairly.IF he can't treat them equally he can't have 4.

SO there goes your theory on the obligation that Muslims need to follow Mohamed to a tee.

Mohamed tended to cattle,does that mean muslims can't do other jobs cause MOhamed didn't do other work?

wally1,

Apart from the limit of four wives for your run-of-the-mill moslem [and in contrast, Allah allowing Mohammed as many wives as he desired], is there any conduct, or act which Mohammed is recorded as indulging in, that a moslem today is prohibited from also doing ?

No.

Allah stated that Mohammed's life and his conduct, was an example, that should be imitated by all moslems.

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
Koran 33.21

Google;
muslims commanded, imitate muhammad

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #242 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 9:34am

Soren wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 11:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

Excellent work, old boy. You’ve done it.

I hate to be picky, but they are trying to raise the age to 18.

Trying. You didn't ask me to give you one - 1 - Muslim jurisdiction where there is NO age limit but are trying to introduce one.

And Yemen, which you inexplicably left off in your reply, is another one - 1 - of those Muslim jurisdictions where there is no age limit. They had one but it is now abolished. So they are not even trying.

Qatar has no age limit either. That another one - 1 - Muslim jurisdiction.

You may start your usual idiotic jibberish and PB tap dancing now. Or rather continue, I should say.

Now now, we British are gracious in victory, old boy - it's a custom you Huns could learn to observe.

After doing some reading, I give you Yemen and Qatar as well - three states without age of consent laws; all Muslim.

Not only do I grant you the states, I grant you your entire pitch. Your examples are evidence, I believe, of an entrenched Muslim custom to marry off child brides. Given these states are of the legalistic Islamic persuasion, it looks like a Muslim issue - not the sort of tribal custom Muslims say they want to stamp out.

With your evidence, there is reason to believe that this practice could be exported to other countries, including Australia. While no one knows the extent of this - if there is one - it may well be an issue.

You see? Every now and then, old boy, you are able to let a little light in. Keep up the good work.

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21786 A cat with a view	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #243 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 10:06am Soren, Obviously, post #242, is a concession from K, that you did prove your argument. Is that correct, K ? Or are you going to assert, that you did not concede ?
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95930 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #244 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 11:18am Yadda wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 10:06am: Soren, Obviously, post #242, is a concession from K, that you did prove your argument. He most certainly did, Y. You see? Evidence. Makes a nice change from the lack of evidence proving guilt, no? I commend the old boy on proving his case.
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #245 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 10:36am Check this out .... link Leftwing 'Progressive' luvvies yet again trying to undermine standards of decent behaviour.
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Pete Waldo

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #246 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 11:23pm

Regardless of what is announced publicly for consumption by human rights organizations, reform is nothing more than a big dumb show aimed at wishful, naive, ignorant, westerners. Marrying down to 6 years old, and consummating the marriage down to 9 years old, will always remain a part of Islam because Muhammad did both.
While Islamic "reformers" wind up as dead reformers.

For another example, while America still seems to be the world's #1 punching bag for slavery, capturing and pressing Africans into slavery wasn't "officially" abolished in Saudi Arabia and Yemen until 1962, UAE 1963, and Oman not until 1970.
But this was of course done only in response to outside pressure, as slavery will always be Islamic, because Muhammad was a slave maker and trader.
Effectively imported slaves, trapped by lies of the promise of prosperity into traveling to Dubai for work, then winding up owing their souls to the "company store", is whose backs the opulent luxury of Dubai was built on.
https://www.google.com/#q=dubai+slave+labor
Slavery continues in some Islamic countries, as it has without interruption, for 1400 years.
No group could ever begin to compete with over hundred million that have been enslaved, or died in transit, by the followers of the false prophet Muhammad.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islamic_slavery_dhimmitude.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI

Just noticed this as I composed this post:

"A comparison of the Islamic slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Islamic slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!"
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Slavery

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2014 at 11:45pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #247 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 12:34pm

Quote:

Regardless of what is announced publicly for consumption by human rights organizations, reform is nothing more than a big dumb show aimed at wishful, naive, ignorant, westerners. Marrying down to 6 years old, and consummating the marriage down to 9 years old, will always remain a part of Islam because Muhammad did both.

I have asked Muslims in this thread about this side of the issue. Even Gandalf won't touch it. How can you confront this issue head-on from within Australia's Muslim community while pretending Muhammed did not have sex with children? You will either take yourself out of the debate by offending too many of the Muslims, or you will have to water down your message to the point that it sounds like you are endorsing pedophilia.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #248 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 3:36pm

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

Quote:

Regardless of what is announced publicly for consumption by human rights organizations, reform is nothing more than a big dumb show aimed at wishful, naive, ignorant, westerners. Marrying down to 6 years old, and consummating the marriage down to 9 years old, will always remain a part of Islam because Muhammad did both.

I have asked Muslims in this thread about this side of the issue. Even Gandalf won't touch it.

How can you confront this issue head-on from within Australia's Muslim community while pretending Muhammed did not have sex with children? You will either take yourself out of the debate by offending too many of the Muslims, or you will have to water down your message to the point that it sounds like you are endorsing pedophilia.

Moslems want us to become so paralised by our own fear of offending moslems, that moslems can then, just do as they please.

We have to be prepared to 'draw a line in the sand'.

If we won't do that [if we do not speak up, against this wickedness in our midst], then we will become indistinguishable [morally] from moslems.

As the line goes;

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee..."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #249 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:01pm

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

Quote:

Regardless of what is announced publicly for consumption by human rights organizations, reform is nothing more than a big dumb show aimed at wishful, naive, ignorant, westerners. Marrying down to 6 years old, and consummating the marriage down to 9 years old, will always remain a part of Islam because Muhammad did both.

I have asked Muslims in this thread about this side of the issue. Even Gandalf won't touch it. How can you confront this issue head-on from within Australia's Muslim community while pretending Muhammed did not have sex with children? You will either take yourself out of the debate by offending too many of the Muslims, or you will have to water down your message to the point that it sounds like you are endorsing pedophilia.

Maybe, but how do religious Jews justify the example of their prophets and kings? David was a serial cad and right bastard. Abraham’s slave Hagar supposedly produced one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a polygamist.

It is possible to reflect critically on the historical context of your prophets. Whether you do or not is another matter. Muslims don’t hold Muhammed up as God - the very reason Muhammed’s image is banned is to avoid deification.

Muhammed is presented as a kind of saint in the Koran, but not a perfect one. Islam shows that a flawed human being , like the prophets of Israel, can receive the message of God. Muhammed is not God - Muslims believe he merely points a direction to God.

If they try to emulate the lifestyle of an allegedly dodgy 8th century merchant, surely the message is getting lost in translation somewhere.

And yes, this is a problem, but it’s a problem fundamentalists everywhere are accountable for.

Look at Christianity. Paul turned a desert mystic into a pagan deity. Christians believe they don’t have to live the example of Jesus to be "saved" - they believe they merely have to believe in him. Loving thy neighbour, turning the other cheek, living life like the birds - for Pauline Christians, none of this really matters. They merely prop up an image of their saviour and expect salvation.

This is a problem with gurus and saints and religious teachers the world over. People deify the.messenger. It’s a huge spiritual problem. It leads people to being stuck in idol worship, dogma and intellectual posturing.

There are traditions within all the main religions that avoid this problem. Islam has Sufism, Christianity has Gnosticism, Hinduism has Yoga. These are traditions of spiritual practice, not dogma or idolatry.

If you turn to worshiping Abraham or Joseph Smith or Jesus or Muhammed, you’ve missed their point.

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« Last Edit: Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:21pm by Karnal »

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Stratos

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #250 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:08pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:01pm:

David was a serial cad and right bastard.

Blasphemy, for as the good book says,

Quote:

And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Wonder where God's will and heart comes into the fact he manipulated an entire army to try and cover the fact he slept with someone else's wife?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Datalife

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #251 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:12pm

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

[quote]

I have asked Muslims in this thread about this side of the issue. Even Gandalf won't touch it.

When I saw Gandalf struggling and tapdancing, debating dolls and if there was grass on the pitch or not, I gave him what I thought was perfectly good and reasonable advice.

That by the standards of the time big Mo was not a paedophile but by modern western standards he would be considered a paedophile.

That goes with many things including warfare which is another subject where Gandalf resorts to tap and limbo dancing to justify past actions within a modern context. It don't work.

Generally I don't engage apart from the odd bit of good advice, arguing with the religious is usually pointless.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #252 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:34pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:08pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:01pm:

David was a serial cad and right bastard.

Blasphemy, for as the good book says,

Quote:

And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Wonder where God's will and heart comes into the fact he manipulated an entire army to try and cover the fact he slept with someone else's wife?

True, but Judaism is largely a nationalist movement that just happened to stumble into monotheism. Jews are very critical of their own tradition. It doesn’t make anyone less a Jew.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #253 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:36pm Karnal wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:34pm: True, but Judaism is largely a nationalist movement that just happened to stumble into monotheism. Jews are very critical of their own tradition. It doesn’t make anyone less a Jew. That's actually from the book of Acts in the new testament.
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #254 - Feb 21^st, 2014 at 6:56pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 21^st, 2014 at 5:34pm:

True, but Judaism is largely a nationalist movement that just happened to stumble into monotheism. Jews are very critical of their own tradition. It doesn’t make anyone less a Jew.

That's actually from the book of Acts in the new testament.

Karmic Khristians. It took Paul to turn the whole thing into a religion.

Christianity was formed by a former zealot.

Doesn’t make it any less of a religion though. Like everything else, buyer beware.

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