freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 2:32pm:


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Jeremiah 5:21
....O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:


Ezekiel 12:2
Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 3:28pm:


And if they do smile and say hi to you K, does their smile, make you, their friend ?

FD asked;
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It is no good FD.

K, can't read, or can't comprehend, what is in this post, below this full stop >>.<<





Yeah, K.

Those moslems at the prayer hall at the end of my street, are praying to the Allah of the Koran.

And the those moslems revere the Mohammed of the Hadith.









THE ALLAH IN THE KORAN, WHO MOSLEMS IN YOUR STREET, WORSHIP AND ADORE....

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29



FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - THE HADITH....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

n.b.



"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 6:40pm:


The people I mentioned are the ones I’ve discussed views with. The clients, shopkeepers and neighbours in the street I just discuss the weather with - luckily escaping with my life.

A lot of what Abu and Falah said shocked me too. I loved Falah’s defence of female circumcision - I couldn’t make any of it up, even if I tried.

Everything they said came out of the strangest traditions and customs - it made no sense in modern life.

The thing is though, none of it is essential. You don’t need to use your left foot to walk into the bathroom, shave off your body hair or be circumcised to be a Muslim. There are unnecessary, non-mandatory rituals people perform because they believe it strengthens their faith. Some do it, some don’t. Many work hard to get a prayer bump on their forehead - that "third eye" callous some get from touching their foreheads to the floor hundreds of times - others just pray. Others don’t pray. This is their choice. As Gandalf has pointed out to you, "there should be no compulsion in religion".

Something I’ve learned, mainly from travelling and being in many different places of worship, is that you don’t judge the religious practices of others. You’ll never get it, and it’s not worth trying. Other people’s views are other people’s views.
I would much rather discuss the weather with a stranger than religion, although I am far more curious about religion. These days, I’ve learned not to ask.

I learn much more from people’s actions than I do from their words.

Ask Y. He’ll tell you the same - in a lot of words.

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Did they give you the same platitudes as Abu and Falah?

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Karnal, you seem to be ignoring the important issues. I hadn't heard of the left foot thing. Did you make that up?

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Didn't you just explain that you feel entitled to criticise Christianity? I think you even gave us a demonstration.

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Can you learn whether they support stoning apostates to death? Or can you only learn what foot they walk on when approaching the toilet?

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It's called thinking for yourself Karnal. You are entitled to it.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 9:11pm:


We’ve discussed this topic a few times here. The separation of civil and criminal law is inherent to Sharia law, along with some other proceedural issues. There’s good evidence this influenced European law - this is not a Muslim argument, but a Western one. I don’t know it’s true or not, but it’s not Muslim propaganda.

Islam dominated the world when Europe was still bickering over its fake holy relics and scraps of peat marsh. It improved on classical architecture, invented new forms of music, tiles, glass, ceramics, legal and administrative systems, and it cornered global trade.

Islam may well perish - it’s certainly in a downward spiral. But there’s no denying Islam once led the world. Its influence still exists in most parts of Asia - some good, some bad.

Cultures and empires rise and fall. No one stays on top of the game for good.

The Jews were once exiled slaves - now they’ve got a nation state and the patent for the USB drive. You see? Nothing stays the same for long.

This is why it’s best not to be too gung-ho . Fly too close to the sun and you burn.

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 9:48pm:


Oh, I’ve seen a few things, FD. You can’t play the old spineless apologist game with me.

Allah Uakbar.

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 9:55pm:


But if you are able to 'observe' the world in which you exist, aren't you entitled to initially think for yourself, form an opinion, and to develop and hold a hypothesis [upon a certain matter], until that [your] hypothesis is dis-proven [to your own satisfaction] ?


K,

For example;
How do you account for the threats contained within ISLAMIC texts.....threats which are directed towards all persons who are not moslems, and, then the dead bodies that continue to mount up, wherever moslems 'interact' with those who are not moslems ?

e.g.....the threats contained within ISLAMIC texts;

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


K,

Are the dead bodies in those circumstances [in those places where moslems 'interact' with those who are not moslems], just a coincidence ?

Or are the dead bodies just a consequence of other persons persecuting moslems, and moslems just rightly, defending ISLAM and themselves ?


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