Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #450 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 8:43pm FD seems to be off his rocker. Its smacking bizarre - even for FD.
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #451 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 9:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 8:06pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 7:52pm:

Then you will have no trouble finding examples where he clarifies that Islam itself opposes what Muhammed

you're actually asking me for evidence.

No no, FD’s demanding you prove that Muslims aren’t forced to follow Muhammed’s example and become paedophiles.

He’s saying that if the Grand Mufti doesn’t spell this out, that’s exactly what the Muselman’s sinister religion will force him to do.

The legal and ethical clause, you see, is an out. FD knows how these things work, and we won’t fall for it on this board, thank you very much.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #452 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:15pm

I am saying that, despite the obvious opportunity, the grand mufti did not say that Islam opposes sex with children. He did not say that Islam itself opposes the marriage of a 26 year old man to a 12 year old girl, or even a 50 year old man to a 6 year old girl. You would not expect him to, because he would be lying if he did (and good Muslims only lie when they can get away with it). I do not doubt his support for Australian law on the matter, but you cannot take what he says as a statement about Islam, because it is not a statement about Islam, and he was careful to explain from what "perspective" he was speaking.

I am happy for you to try to prove me wrong. All I am doing is pointing out what he actually said.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #453 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:32pm

Uh oh, looks like Kaiser Trad missed the "don't mention the war" memo:

Quote:

''We are shocked that such things could occur in Australia. No licensed celebrant is allowed to conduct a marriage of this nature as it goes against all Islamic teachings.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/child-brides-marriage-was-permitted-by-father-say-police-20140208-328k7.html#ixzz2uiJEp7gN

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #454 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:40pm OK, that one is interesting. Any idea what those teachings are?
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #455 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:41pm

Sounds like you’d like to write the Grand Mufti’s next sermon, FD. Have you heard the pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury deliver said speach? I haven’t.

It’s possible that they have, of course, and I simply haven’t heard it. I’ve never assumed Christianity espouses paefophilia, however, because its leaders haven’t spelt out my preferred statement opposing it.

To be honest, actions speak louder than words. If the church simply follows the same mandatory reporting laws as everybody else, they won’t have to say a thing.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #456 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:32pm:

Uh oh, looks like Kaiser Trad missed the "don't mention the war" memo:

Quote:

''We are shocked that such things could occur in Australia. No licensed celebrant is allowed to conduct a marriage of this nature as it goes against all Islamic teachings.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/child-brides-marriage-was-permitted-by-father-say-police-20140208-328k7.html#ixzz2uiJEp7gN

That doesn’t count, G. He doesn’t declare Islam to be a sinister paedophile cult and rally Australian Muslims behind FD’s cause.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #457 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:59pm Karnal, do you believe what Trad said?
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Stratos

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #458 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 11:49pm

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:15pm:

I am happy for you to try to prove me wrong. All I am doing is pointing out what he actually said.

No you aren't lol.

Quote:

I can say that because the cleric himself pointed out that it was not about Islam.

At no point did he say this, or anything remotely similar to it.

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:15pm:

and good Muslims only lie when they can get away with it

Bonus irony points tonight here Freediver.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #459 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:03am

freediver wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:59pm:

Karnal, do you believe what Trad said?

Which bit? That he’s shocked such marriages occur in Australia?

Yes, FD, I believe it. I think most people are shocked that these things occur in Australia.

All parents I’ve worked with who’s underage daughters have flown the coop to live with older men have been shocked that there’s nothing the system can do to get them to return. As Mistie would say, there’s a thesis waiting to be written on this one.

Again, read Pru Goward’s comments and the census figures on underage defacto "marriages" quoted in the Tele article. It discusses one case of Islamic underage marriage and refers to statistics on numerous non-Islamic underage defacto relationships.

But there you have it. If the Muselman doesn’’t say this goes against Islam, you find him guilty. If he does, you question the validity of his statement.

Superior logic and reasoning, innit. That, you see, is what makes us superior in every way to the dastardly Muselman.

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #460 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:24am

Stratos wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:58pm:

meanwhile, Muslims groups are quick to condemn it.

No they have not.

Look carefully at the form of words that the Australian moslem community has used, in responding to this media 'incident'.

Stratos wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Quote:

Muslim leaders have expressed their concern at the so-called marriage and the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, said it should be ''rejected and condemned from a legal and ethical perspective''.

Ibrahim Abu Mohamed could have said;

" THE AUSTRALIAN MOSLEM COMMUNITY rejects and condemns these unlawful unions,...."

But the Grand Mufti of Australia did not say that.

Stratos wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Quote:

Muslim Women's Association executive officer Maha Abdo said.........''There is nothing to hide here. This sort of behaviour is against Australian law and the Muslim community does not encourage or condone such a union,'' she said.
''We, as Australian Muslim women, like the rest of Australia are deeply concerned for the welfare of the young girl.''

Maha Abdo could have said;

"This sort of behaviour is against Australian law AND THE AUSTRALIAN MOSLEM COMMUNITY CONDEMNS these unlawful unions,...."

But she did not.

Stratos wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Seems like a pretty widespread condemnation.

Surely. .....NOT.

+++

Look carefully at the form of words that the Australian moslem community has used, in responding to this 'incident'.

Quote:

Australia’s imams condemn media coverage of child marriage scandal

“Australian National Imams council is distressed and expressed its dismay on the media reports…”

This media statement is enlightening primarily for what it doesn’t say.

It doesn’t say anywhere that marrying a 12 year old girl is against Islamic law. Nor does it say that Islam condemns this form of institutionalised paedophilia. And nowhere is it mentioned that Australia’s Islamic community should report such marriages to the police.

What Australia’s Grand Mufti does say is that marrying a child is to be rejected and condemned from a legal and ethical perspective. While he’s right, the Head Honcho of Australia’s Islamic community is playing with words. It’s very deceptive and Dr Abrahim Salem should be called out for it.

All Dr Salem has done is acknowledge that child marriage is against Australian law and Australian ethical standards which are based on our Christian heritage. He gives no indication anywhere that he supports these standards or that they are more worthy than Islamic ones. In fact, the Grand Mufti even goes so far as to say that it is up to Australian legal authorities to deal with this case. According to Dr Salem, it is not up to Islamic authorities to do or say anything against child marriage.

http://bernardgaynor.com.au/australias-imams-condemn-media-coverage-of-child-mar...

http://melodiousocean.wordpress.com/tag/underage-marriage/

Google;
underage "rejected and condemned from a legal and ethical perspective"

Google;
Australia, imams condemn media coverage of child marriage scandal

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« Last Edit: Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 1:07am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #461 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:32am

And here comes the genocide advocate to add his two cents.

He could have said a lot of things but didn't. Did anyone ever find anyone from the Muslim community that had made a statement reflecting positively on the marriage yet? Just curious.

In fact, I'm going to have a lot of fun over the next day, extrapolating ridiculous scenarios that you and Freediver are allegedly supporting based on things you didn't say.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95911 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #462 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:41am I’ve never hear Y condemn paedophile priests and Christian sex cults. Why is that, Y? Hiding something?
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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #463 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 1:32am

Karnal wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:41am:

I’ve never hear Y condemn paedophile priests and Christian sex cults. Why is that, Y?

Hiding something?

Karnal,

I do condemn paedophile priests.

They have betrayed the trust that their office [as a priest] afforded them, and they have stolen away the innocence of innocent children.

I do condemn sex cults [purporting to be in any sense a 'Christian' sex cult].i
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #464 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 1:57am

Yadda wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 1:32am:

Karnal wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 12:41am:

I’ve never hear Y condemn paedophile priests and Christian sex cults. Why is that, Y?

Hiding something?

Karnal,

I do condemn paedophile priests.

They have betrayed the trust that their office [as a priest] afforded them, and they have stolen away the innocence of innocent children.

And i condemn the hierarchy and the leadership within the churches that have effectively tolerated and protected paedophile priests.

Those men [the leaders in the churches], should have been properly judging their own house [which is God's house, that is entrusted into their hands], imo.

Deuteronomy 32:28
For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

Isaiah 1:16
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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