Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #540 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:29pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm:

But what did you say about this Muslim child marriage epidemic? Do you know?

Originally I did say it was a muslim problem, but I wasn't looking very closely at the facts. Only after you pointed out that the actual facts did I realise that it is not apparent at all that this is a muslim issue.

I happily concede my error.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #541 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm:

But what did you say about this Muslim child marriage epidemic? Do you know?

Originally I did say it was a muslim problem, but I wasn't looking very closely at the facts. Only after you pointed out that the actual facts did I realise that it is not apparent at all that this is a muslim issue.

I happily concede my error.

But what are your experiences in the Islamic community? Do you have any knowledge of a Muslim child bride phenomenon in Australia?

FD is using you as evidence, you know. You’re the new Abu.

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #542 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm:

But what did you say about this Muslim child marriage epidemic? Do you know?

Originally I did say it was a muslim problem, but I wasn't looking very closely at the facts. Only after you pointed out that the actual facts did I realise that it is not apparent at all that this is a muslim issue.

I happily concede my error.

Gee, then there is absolutely no need for moslems living in Australia to confront this 'issue' then, is there ?

Coz, its got nuffin to do with ISLAM and its societal values.

"Move on folks. Nothing to see here."

Glad we've got that cleared up!

'ISLAM is not responsible, for nuffin.'

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #543 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:52pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm:

But what did you say about this Muslim child marriage epidemic? Do you know?

Originally I did say it was a muslim problem, but I wasn't looking very closely at the facts. Only after you pointed out that the actual facts did I realise that it is not apparent at all that this is a muslim issue.

I happily concede my error.

Gee, then there is absolutely no need for moslems living in Australia to confront this 'issue' then, is there ?

Coz, its got nuffin to do with ISLAM and its societal values.

"Move on folks. Nothing to see here."

Glad we've got that cleared up!

'ISLAM is not responsible, for nuffin.'

Yes, Y, but those two toddlers do want to behead all those who insult the prophet.

There is that.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96232 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #544 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 11:14pm freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 8:01pm: TC has in this very thread tried to explain that science permits us to have sex with children as soon as they are capable of bearing live young. Good heavens. Who are these scientists, FD? They must be named and shamed. Biologists, are they? Typical.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #545 - Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 11:29pm Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:36pm: FD is using you as evidence, you know. You’re the new Abu. I'm sure. I eagerly await the wiki page that quotes me saying child marriage is abhorrent - and interpreting it as me saying child marriage is the most awesome thing in the world.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #546 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm:

But what did you say about this Muslim child marriage epidemic? Do you know?

Originally I did say it was a muslim problem, but I wasn't looking very closely at the facts. Only after you pointed out that the actual facts did I realise that it is not apparent at all that this is a muslim issue.

I happily concede my error.

That was lucky, it almost looked like you were trying to take responsibility and tackle the issue head on (not you personally of course, but 'other Muslims').

So Muslims marrying children is only a problem overseas?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 11:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2014 at 10:36pm:

FD is using you as evidence, you know. You’re the new Abu.

I'm sure. I eagerly await the wiki page that quotes me saying child marriage is abhorrent - and interpreting it as me saying child marriage is the most awesome thing in the world.

So what do you think Karnal, is that a straight answer?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #547 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:43pm freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:17pm: So Muslims marrying children is only a problem overseas? Its a problem wherever it happens FD. The question here is whether or not the phenomenon of child marriage is a muslim phenomenon. The evidence indicates that it is not.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #548 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 1:01pm

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:17pm:

So what do you think Karnal, is that a straight answer?

Compared to your answers, FD, it's as good as it gets. Your last straight answer was a sort of Vinnie Barbarino "wha...?"

Would you like to clarify what G's experience with child brides in the Muslim community is? Let's ask him.

G, forgetting the Daily Tele article, do you know anything from your friends in the Muslim community about an epidemic of Muslim child marriages in Sydney?

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #549 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 1:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:17pm:

So Muslims marrying children is only a problem overseas?

Its a problem wherever it happens FD.

The question here is whether or not the phenomenon of child marriage is a muslim phenomenon.

The evidence indicates that it is not.

There you go again, with 'the form of words' which you choose to use, gadalf.....

The question here is whether or not the phenomenon of child marriage is a muslim phenomenon ever/often involves moslem men and if it ever occurs within moslem communities ?

And the evidence indicates that it DOES, often.

i.e.
Moslems men involved in child marriage, within moslem communities worldwide, is not uncommon.

It has even happened, here, in Australia!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #550 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 1:57pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 1:01pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 12:17pm:

So what do you think Karnal, is that a straight answer?

Compared to your answers, FD, it's as good as it gets. Your last straight answer was a sort of Vinnie Barbarino "wha...?"

Would you like to clarify what G's experience with child brides in the Muslim community is? Let's ask him.

G, forgetting the Daily Tele article, do you know anything from your friends in the Muslim community about an epidemic of Muslim child marriages in Sydney?

Google;
epidemic of Muslim child marriages, UK

K,

That very many child marriages within the Australian moslem community have not yet been exposed [to the same extent that child marriages within the moslem community have been exposed in the UK], does not prove that child marriage, within the Australian moslem community, is not prevalent.

And it appears that there have been many incidences of child marriages uncovered within Australia....

Because particular ethnic communities have not been identified, DOES NOT mean these instances did not occur within the moslem community.

And imo, the Australian authorities, should identify the cultural groups when those instances have occurred - otherwise no one will learn what the causes of these incidences were.

#1,

Quote:

Shame of our child brides: Court hears how woman was raped and beaten as it’s revealed hundreds are forced into arranged and unregistered marriages across NSW

Exclusive by Padraic Murphy
The Daily Telegraph
February 12, 2014 1:56PM

....TERRIFYING EPIDEMIC OF CHILD BRIDES

Exclusive by Alicia Woods

HUNDREDS of underage teenagers are living in unregistered defacto marriages in NSW — and pressure is mounting for state and federal authorities to investigate illegal unions.

....Eman Sharobeem from the Immigrant Women’s Health Service said hundreds of children as young as 11 were being sent overseas to be married after being “shopped” on Facebook. “It’s far more prevalent and well-known than people think,” she said.

....“Every young girl in NSW should have the opportunity to make her own choices about her future, and underage marriage is completely unacceptable,” Ms Goward said.

“It doesn’t matter if the arrangement is religious or cultural, if the law in this state says it is illegal, parents and the community need to accept that and abide by it.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/shame-of-our-child-brides-court-hears-...

#2,

Quote:

Multiculturalism's Child Brides

by Mark Durie
Quadrant Online
February 26, 2014

The Daily Telegraph has reported an 'epidemic' of young girls becoming 'child brides' or being in de facto relationships in NSW. The state Community Services Minister, Pru Goward, commented "I understand there are actually a significant number of unlawful, unregistered marriages to under-aged girls in NSW, particularly in western Sydney, southwest Sydney and the Blue Mountains."

....The proliferation of unregistered religious marriages in recent years is a sign that the Australian authorities need to do much more to enforce the provisions of the Australian Marriage Act.

....The Imams Council also stated that 'any religion … should not be held accountable for violations by its followers.'

....To treat Christian and non-Christian marriages differently disrespects non-Christian religions because their unions are considered 'non-marriages,' and not even 'void' marriages. More importantly, it puts the women who enter such unions at risk because the failure of the state to regulate their marriages makes them vulnerable to the very abuses which the centuries-old marriage laws were meant to to prevent.

http://www.meforum.org/3775/child-brides

[/quote]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #551 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 2:23pm

That’s right, Y. The lack of evidence for Muslim underage marriage in Australia does not mean nothing’s going on. That’s why it’s important to keep an open mind.

Tabloid headlines screaming, TERRIFYING EPIDEMIC OF CHILD BRIDES are meaningless when their articles report no such thing. You expect this from the tabloid media. The headline is there to sell news and advertising space. It’s not there to tell the truth.

I don’t think anyone here is saying there are no Muslim child marriages in Sydney. There may well be. At present, however, we have no evidence.

I have to say, it would be very hard to keep a school-aged marriage under wraps. Parents and children talk. If kids aren’t in school, Education drops in to find out why. If there are welfare concerns, Community Services drops in. The one instance of Muslim marriage we know about was uncovered by the system. Everyone who is employed to work with children is a mandatory reporter. All it would take is one suspicious teacher, friend, neighbour or community service, and that news would make the headlines.

Because of this, I doubt very much that there’s an epidemic in Australia. Overseas is a different matter. It is possible girls are being sent back to countries of origin to be married. I know of numerous instances of Australian citizens being sent back to India for arranged marriages, although those women (and men) were all over 18.

Still, if there is an epidemic right here under our noses, does anyone have any actual proof? Census data of non-Muslim underage defacto relationships is very desperate indeed.

My guess - and I could be wrong - is that this campaign by Pru Goward and the Tele (and, no doubt, talkback radio), will quietly fade away.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #552 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 6:54pm

Quote:

The one instance of Muslim marriage we know about was uncovered by the system.

How's that straight answer from Gandalf going? No doubt he is carefully reassessing the evidence in case there is any reason he can give the benefit of the doubt. Remember Gandalf, you can only condemn a fellow Muslim if you actually witnessed penetration.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Stratos

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #553 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 7:12pm

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

Quote:

The one instance of Muslim marriage we know about was uncovered by the system.

How's that straight answer from Gandalf going? No doubt he is carefully reassessing the evidence in case there is any reason he can give the benefit of the doubt. Remember Gandalf, you can only condemn a fellow Muslim if you actually witnessed penetration.

He says, apparently immune to irony....

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #554 - Mar 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 7:12pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

Quote:

The one instance of Muslim marriage we know about was uncovered by the system.

How's that straight answer from Gandalf going? No doubt he is carefully reassessing the evidence in case there is any reason he can give the benefit of the doubt. Remember Gandalf, you can only condemn a fellow Muslim if you actually witnessed penetration.

He says, apparently immune to irony....

Not that there’s anything wrong with it.

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