Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #735 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:02pm

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No. If I didn't have to explain basic English comprehension to you, there probably wouldn't be anything left for me to respond to.

If the grand Mufti was able to say that child brides are against Islam, he would have. He would not have made it appear differently in order to make his message appeal to non-Muslims. I have no idea why you even introduced this argument. It does not make sense. He was not trying to convince the non-Muslim community that pedophilia is bad. The Mufti's comments were introduced to show that the Islamic community can deal with it, not that they can placate the non-Muslim community with pleasant sounding rhetoric.

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It is not a link at all if there is no evidence (outside of putting words in muslim's mouths) that muslims are justifying the practice on this basis. And in regards to the Australian muslim community, there isn't any evidence.

Is Australian Islam different to overseas Islam?

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LOL indeed. Presumably then FD wasn't trying to insinuate that by not saying islam condemns it, the Grand Mufti believes islam condones it after all.

Yes I was Gandalf.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #736 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:43pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 5:29pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 5:20pm:

Quote:

Paedophilia, by the way, is not a crime. Sexual abuse, however is.

WTF?

Technically he is right. Paedophilia is a sexual preference (as hideously wrong as it is), not the act of child abuse itself. Basically, like most things, you can't be convicted of thoughtcrime.

The above statement does need a bit of clarification though

How does it need clarification? I must say, I’m a bit shocked that I have to spell this out. Crimes are actions against people or property. You’re not breaking a law by thinking or feeling something.

FD doesn’t understand this. He still wants to prosecute the Grand Mufti for some sort of thought crime, Gud knows what. FD would probably prosecute Muslims if he could - Y definitely would. All his posts are on this very theme - the criminality of the Musel mind.

I’m shocked that I’m shocked. You’d think I’d know the score here by now, but I’m continually surprised. I never get used to it.

The old boy, by the way, is a faecophile - not that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s perfectly legal, as long as you don’t serve any up without consent.

Thankfully, I love it.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:48pm by Karnal »

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #737 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:50pm Karnal wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:43pm: How does it need clarification? If you say someone is a pedophile, it comes with a pretty clear indication almost all of the time that they are also a sex offender. (not sure if taking the piss)
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #738 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:00pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

Gee, thanks for pointing that out Karnal. Pedophilia is not a crime and there is no point reporting parents who inquire about getting their little kids married off. If only Islam had more friends like you.

Put it in the wiki, FD.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming you have no knowledge of the things we’re discussing. Concepts like paedophilia, underage marriage, consent, criminality. You love to hate it all, but you don’t actually unpack things or think about the things you’re discussing.

This explains how you can go on for five pages about the legalistic words of a mufti. You think in black and white. Much of what we’re discussing here seems quite alien to you. With the exception of the words of Abu , Falah and Yadda, of course, Islam is quite alien to you.

This is not a judgement or a put-down, but don’t you think people should have a little knowledge of the things they discuss?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this, FD. Do you think there’s a kind of virtue in crapping on about things you have no knowledge of?

Remember, it led many here to rush into a pogrom.based on an epidemic of Muslim child marriages. The Nazis, it seems, were amateurs when it came to hate campaigns. Yet we think we’ve moved on.

What do you think?

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm by Karnal »

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #739 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:25pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:50pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

How does it need clarification?

If you say someone is a pedophile, it comes with a pretty clear indication almost all of the time that they are also a sex offender.

(not sure if taking the piss)

A paedophile, as far as I’m aware, is someone with a sexual attraction to children. Most sex offenses against children are not committed by paedophiles. The bulk of offenders are children themselves - literally. Others are adolescents and men into their twenties who fall in with underage girls.

Look at the statistics on underage defacto m"marriages". These aren’t paedophiles. They’re just young guys in country towns with nothing to do.

And yes, they make up the bulk of reports for sexual abuse.

Believe it or not, this is the main reason for marrying girls in traditional societies off at young ages. Parents fear these relationships like death. These kind of relationships tend to get their daughters knocked up and ruin the parents’ chance of getting a decent dowry. Parents of girls everywhere know this fear.

Yes, friends, lock up your daughters, get them on the pill, or marry them young.

They’re the only options.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:44pm by Karnal »

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139596 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #740 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:29pm freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 5:20pm: Quote: Paedophilia, by the way, is not a crime. Sexual abuse, however is. WTF? Which part of the statement didn't you understand? It was clear, concise, and accurate.
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #741 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:29pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 5:20pm:

Quote:

Paedophilia, by the way, is not a crime. Sexual abuse, however is.

WTF?

Which part of the statement didn't you understand?

It was clear, concise, and accurate.

Sure, but FD’s spent the last week pulling out words and meanings and unintentional meanings and abstracting them into perverse contortions.

He can’t help himself.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #742 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 8:59pm

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It is not a link at all if there is no evidence (outside of putting words in muslim's mouths) that muslims are justifying the practice on this basis.

There is plenty of evidence Gandalf. You just can't seem to keep more than one example in your head at a time. If a Muslim Imam conducts a Muslim wedding ceremony between two Muslims (one of whom just happens to be 12 years old) I don't have to put any words in his mouth at all. His actions speak for themselves.

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FD doesn’t understand this. He still wants to prosecute the Grand Mufti for some sort of thought crime, Gud knows what. FD would probably prosecute Muslims if he could - Y definitely would. All his posts are on this very theme - the criminality of the Musel mind.

Karnal you are sounding more like Brian Ross every day. If I wanted to prosecute someone, I would say so. If I want to highlight that what a person said is different to what others are claiming he said, I will do so.

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This explains how you can go on for five pages about the legalistic words of a mufti.

It is you lot that keeps bringing it up, not me.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #743 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:00pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

If the grand Mufti was able to say that child brides are against Islam, he would have.

Baseless nonsense, you are grasping at straws.

The words he chose made perfect sense for addressing this as a problem that encompasses all faiths and all cultures - which is exactly what it is. Besides, you would have to have rocks in your head to think that an islamic leader justifying something on "ethical grounds" is not talking about islamic grounds.

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

Is Australian Islam different to overseas Islam?

I would think so. Or maybe Australian muslims are similar to the fifty something muslim countries that ban child marriage. In fact the evidence that we have pretty strongly suggests that most muslims around the world oppose child marriage. As Karnal has patiently explained at length, the available data indicates that this is not a problem with islam per se, but an issue of tribalism and poverty. So where does that leave you with this "link"? Its meaningless and irrelevant.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #744 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:04pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 7:43pm:

How does it need clarification? I must say, I’m a bit shocked that I have to spell this out. Crimes are actions against people or property. You’re not breaking a law by thinking or feeling something.

You are more full of more sh!t than usual, PB, and that's saying something.
People do get convicted for calling idiots like you godawful idiots and pernicious spivs and chancers - see the Andrew Bolt case. See the Danish cartoons case, Rushdie, the Mohammed youtube furore - all the rest.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #745 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:00pm:

I would think so. Or maybe Australian muslims are similar to the fifty something muslim countries that ban child marriage. In fact the evidence that we have pretty strongly suggests that most muslims around the world oppose child marriage. As Karnal has patiently explained at length, the available data indicates that this is not a problem with islam per se, but an issue of tribalism and poverty. So where does that leave you with this "link"? Its meaningless and irrelevant.

The link between Muhammed and Islam is meaningless and irrelevant?

And when Muslims do it, it's because of tribalism and poverty, not because Muhammed did it. But when they don't do it, it's an expression of Islam?

Quote:

In fact the evidence that we have pretty strongly suggests that most muslims around the world oppose child marriage.

Is this another one of those cases where you don't actually need to ask them what they think?

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #746 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:20pm he's getting angry. Probably something to do with numerous rookie errors and no basis to any of his arguments.
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Soren

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #747 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:00pm:

Or maybe Australian muslims are similar to the fifty something muslim countries that ban child marriage. In fact the evidence that we have pretty strongly suggests that most muslims around the world oppose child marriage. As Karnal has patiently explained at length, the available data indicates that this is not a problem with islam per se, but an issue of tribalism and poverty. So where does that leave you with this "link"? Its meaningless and irrelevant.

So you are categorically against Mohammed marrying Aisha when she was 9 and fvocking her when she was 12-13-14-15?

You oppose the prophet there, don't you? Wrong message/example from Allah's messenger, isn't it.

Any other messages you oppose?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #748 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:22pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:07pm:

The link between Muhammed and Islam is meaningless and irrelevant?

And when Muslims do it, it's because of tribalism and poverty, not because Muhammed did it. But when they don't do it, it's an expression of Islam?

I prefer to look at the actual evidence rather than make fallacious leaps of logic.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #749 - Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:22pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2014 at 9:07pm:

The link between Muhammed and Islam is meaningless and irrelevant?

And when Muslims do it, it's because of tribalism and poverty, not because Muhammed did it. But when they don't do it, it's an expression of Islam?

I prefer to look at the actual evidence rather than make fallacious leaps of logic.

The evidence is that Mohammed was fvoking at least one under-age girl.

What are the consequences of that example?

It is that other Muslims are also feeling justified to fvock under-age girls Good enough for Mohammed, good enough for Mohammedans.

Don't tell me you see a snag that hasn't been seen for 1400 years?!?

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2014 at 4:55pm by Soren »

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