Australian Politics Forum - underage marriage in Sydney

polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #855 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:02am

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

I thought the point was to take responsibility and tackle the issue head on?

I'm talking about your response to Karnal's point.

FD, can you argue that there is a "prevelance" of muslim under-age marriage such that it constitutes a "problem", while simultaneously arguing that muslims have demonstrated their willingness to abide by the laws of their adopted country?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49449 At my desk.	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #856 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:10am If Muslims only refrain from having sex with children to avoid jail, despite their religion supporting it, then it is inevitable that some will place their religious views above the law. Muslims aren't the borg, remember?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #857 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:15am right - we just need some evidence to test that theory - which has been non-existent for 58 pages.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49449 At my desk.	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #858 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:20am Does the census data count as evidence?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #859 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:24am

data saying that there are 38 more muslims than "normal" engaging in under-age defacto marriage?

Not really. For one thing, it is statistically insignificant, and also there is no indication (that I have seen) that these people are actually doing this because they are inspired by their religion. As opposed to just doing it for the same non-religious reasons the other 94% do it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #860 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:30am

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For one thing, it is statistically insignificant

Can you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

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and also there is no indication (that I have seen) that these people are actually doing this because they are inspired by their religion

So it only counts if Muslims do it because Muhammed did it, rather than merely using Muhammed as a justification?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #861 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:52am

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

Can you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

There is a "disproportion" of 38 cases out of a total population of nearly 500 thousands. Call it a hunch. Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

So it only counts if Muslims do it because Muhammed did it, rather than merely using Muhammed as a justification?

Evidence of either would do. You have none.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #862 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:02am

Karnal wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 6:43pm:

Show me a Muslim anywhere but especially in Australia who actually condemned Mohammed's example of f vcking a 9 year old wife.

The example of the prophet of Islam stands unchallenged, undisputed and recognised by Muslims as being far more authoritative than any secular western 'man-made' law. Temporary obeisance to the latter is just that under sharia, temporary.

Yes, so you keep saying, old boy. About 6 times if I’m not mistaken.

Yet no-one will address the question.

All you and Gandy want to do is to pretend that Mohammed's example is completely irrelevant to Muslims.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #863 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:13am

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 7:52am:

What are you suggesting Karnal? That it is only respect for the law, rather than a more fundamental objection to child marriages, that prevents (more) Australian Muslims marrying off their children to dirty old men?

Quote:

If this issue is so prevelant, surely it would weight the numbers of kids marrying with parental consent - from 16 to 18.

Why did you reject the same logic for the census data that has been presented?

You’re saying a total of 38 defacto marriages somehow indicates an explosion of illegal marriages. How? You can try to prove this.

I’m wondering - wondering - if underage marriages turn up in legal underage marriage-with-parental-consent numbers.

Stavros’ posted map, by the way, doesn’t give a breakdown of numbers and religion. It looks as if 16 to 18 are being married predominantly in Aboriginal areas, but this is just a ranked score.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #864 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:17am

Soren wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:02am:

Karnal wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 6:43pm:

Show me a Muslim anywhere but especially in Australia who actually condemned Mohammed's example of f vcking a 9 year old wife.

The example of the prophet of Islam stands unchallenged, undisputed and recognised by Muslims as being far more authoritative than any secular western 'man-made' law. Temporary obeisance to the latter is just that under sharia, temporary.

Yes, so you keep saying, old boy. About 6 times if I’m not mistaken.

Yet no-one will address the question.

All you and Gandy want to do is to pretend that Mohammed's example is completely irrelevant to Muslims.

It would seem to be in Australia, old chap.

You still haven’t provided any evidence to reopen the case. Do you have something fresh, dear boy?

None for me, thanks. I’ve eaten.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #865 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:19am So why the bloody hell are they following Mohammed's example in Australia in every other way? Absentmindedness?
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #866 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:23am Soren wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:19am: So why the bloody hell are they following Mohammed's example in Australia in every other way? Care to give a few examples?
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: underage marriage in Sydney Reply #867 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:33am Stratos wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:23am: Soren wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:19am: So why the bloody hell are they following Mohammed's example in Australia in every other way? Care to give a few examples? What are you? A comedian? Islam IS about following Mohammed's example and teaching. That's ALL it is.
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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #868 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:36am

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 7:52am:

What are you suggesting Karnal? That it is only respect for the law, rather than a more fundamental objection to child marriages, that prevents (more) Australian Muslims marrying off their children to dirty old men?

You’ve hit the nail on the head, FD.

Your Muselman is just like every other group with or without a fundamental objection to child marriages, and I’ve listeda few. Indians, I believe, are the third highest immigrant population. I’m not sure that they have fundamental objections to child marriage. You’ll have to ask.

Better do it in another thread though.

This, as you know, is not how the law works. We don’t make convictions based on our perceived lack of a fundamental objection to something. The Grand Mufti expressing his strongest objections ethically, legally, but not religiously, does not prove a case against him.

All your leads - the imaginary figure of 38 defactos, the Facebook shopping, "hundreds" of forced underage marriages - have come to nought.

The old boy’s serving stool if you’re hungry. I’ve declined.

It looks a bit stale to me.

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Karnal

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Re: underage marriage in Sydney
Reply #869 - Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:40am

Soren wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:33am:

Stratos wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:23am:

Soren wrote on Mar 15^th, 2014 at 10:19am:

So why the bloody hell are they following Mohammed's example in Australia in every other way?

Care to give a few examples?

What are you? A comedian?

Islam IS about following Mohammed's example and teaching. That's ALL it is.

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg

That’s the spirit, old boy.

Y’s left the thread, so you’re doing the Khristian thing and doing his job for him.

Sorry, FD, it’s not just stale, it’s recycled.. Better pass.

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