Australian Politics Forum - MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice

Karnal

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #105 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am

Yadda wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 3:12am:

Any other observations, K ?

Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them.

By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems.

There. I’ve expressed myself.

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #106 - Feb 16^th, 2014 at 12:43pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 3:12am:

Any other observations, K ?

Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them.

By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems.

There. I’ve expressed myself.

Bravo!

[Yadda faints]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #107 - Feb 17^th, 2014 at 10:56pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 3:12am:

Any other observations, K ?

Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them.

By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

K,

The Jewish people.

Of course, wherever they live the Jewish people obey local laws. [....n.b. i'm not speaking of the aberrant actions of some LAWLESS individuals - which we can see in any community of men.]

The vast majority of Jewish people obey local laws, because the Jewish people are intelligent people K.

Laws + Truth bring justice and social order.

Social order brings human well-being and prosperity.

LAWLESSNESS brings social strife.

Social strife is a principle cause of human poverty, imo.

Quote:

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems.

There. I’ve expressed myself.

K,

What you have said, is describing ISLAMIC society, and the common treatment of persons who are not moslems, in a moslem majority jurisdiction.

".....Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to...."

Moslems are above property laws, and can take the property of those who are not moslems......

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06 Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

THE PROPERTY OF INFIDELS, BELONGS TO MOSLEMS.....

"Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us.
...See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Koran 21:43-44

"And He made you [moslems] heirs to their [non-moslem] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."
Koran 33:27

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95293 Gender:	Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice Reply #108 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:43am The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y. Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.
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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #109 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:54am

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y.

Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.

K,

The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis.....

islam and jews

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299665041/39#39
Quote:

......international law allows nations who are attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948, 1967, 1973], to occupy and annex land that was previously recognised as being a part of another state [e.g. Arab states, 1948] because of aggression and attacks, upon a neighbouring state [Israel, 1948].

And international laws does not prohibit a state which was attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948], from occupying and annexing the lands of an aggressor, so as to prevent further attacks.

......"ISRAEL AND INTERNATIONAL LAW....Israel’s presence in all these areas pending negotiation of new borders is entirely lawful, since Israel entered them lawfully in self-defence. International law forbids acquisition by unlawful force, but not where, as in the case of Israel’s self-defence in 1967, the entry on the territory was lawful. It does not so forbid it,

....for the effect of such prohibition would be to guarantee to all potential aggressors that, even if their aggression failed, all territory lost in the attempt would be automatically returned to them. Such a rule would be absurd to the point of lunacy. There is no such rule..."

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1528

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21611 A cat with a view	Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice Reply #110 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:59am K, ALSO; You may learn something about the intractable Arab/Israeli conflict, viewed from a different perspective, if you listen to this; *Part 146C - Two States - Israel and Palestine* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sYmb6Qml2Y
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Karnal

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #111 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 9:35am

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:54am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y.

Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.

K,

The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis.....

These rights are not in question, Y. It's the rights of Palestinians we're discussing here, who have equal rights under sovereign law.

The UN does not have a chosen people - apart from the US, of course.

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #112 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:12am

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 9:35am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:54am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y.

Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.

K,

The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis.....

These rights are not in question, Y.

It's the rights of Palestinians we're discussing here, who have equal rights under sovereign law.

The UN does not have a chosen people - apart from the US, of course.

K,

It can be argued that the 'Palestinians' are interlopers in the areas of Judea and Samaria [and even Gaza], as Israel has effectively annexed those areas - since the moslem instigated conflict of 1967, which did not go their [the moslems] way.

Those 'Palestinians' in Judea and Samaria, have a homeland to retreat to, it is called Jordan.

And if the Israelis are dealing harshly with those 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria, it is because those 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria are behaving in a LAWLESS and hostile manner towards the Israelis.

K,

Will you concede, that the 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria - do have their own homeland - a homeland which is outside of Israel proper [i.e. Israel proper, which includes historic Judea and Samaria] ???

Or is that a silly question K, to put to someone such as yourself ?

IMAGE.....

"Abdullah my brother, the Jews have take our land, and we are a homeless people.
WAIL! WAIL! WAIL!
Those dastardly Zionists!!
We want our land back."

/sarc off

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #113 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:33pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:12am:

K,

It can be argued that the 'Palestinians' are interlopers in the areas of Judea and Samaria [and even Gaza], as Israel has effectively annexed those areas - since the moslem instigated conflict of 1967, which did not go their [the moslems] way.

No, it can't. Not since the Oslo Accords of 1993, when Israel AGREED to hand back these areas.

How can Palestinian home owners be held responsible for the actions of foreign armies in the 67 war?

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:12am:

K,

Will you concede, that the 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria - do have their own homeland - a homeland which is outside of Israel proper [i.e. Israel proper, which includes historic Judea and Samaria] ???

Or is that a silly question K, to put to someone such as yourself ?

It's a silly question to put to anyone who recognises land title, Y. Your homeland is where you own your home.

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« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:41pm by Karnal »

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wally1

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #114 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:16pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 10:56pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 3:12am:

Any other observations, K ?

Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them.

By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

K,

The Jewish people.

Of course, wherever they live the Jewish people obey local laws. [....n.b. i'm not speaking of the aberrant actions of some LAWLESS individuals - which we can see in any community of men.]

The vast majority of Jewish people obey local laws, because the Jewish people are intelligent people K.

Laws + Truth bring justice and social order.

Social order brings human well-being and prosperity.

LAWLESSNESS brings social strife.

Social strife is a principle cause of human poverty, imo.

Quote:

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems.

There. I’ve expressed myself.

K,

What you have said, is describing ISLAMIC society, and the common treatment of persons who are not moslems, in a moslem majority jurisdiction.

".....Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to...."

Moslems are above property laws, and can take the property of those who are not moslems......

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06 Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

THE PROPERTY OF INFIDELS, BELONGS TO MOSLEMS.....

"Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us.
...See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Koran 21:43-44

"And He made you [moslems] heirs to their [non-moslem] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."
Koran 33:27

Prophet Mohamed also said this,

Hadrat Sa‘id bin Zayd (may Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) as saying, “If anyone takes a span of land unjustly, its extent taken from seven earths will be tied round his neck on the Day of Resurrection." (Bukhari and Muslim)

So if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that.

The opposite is with jews.They think they own the whole land from the Euphrates rives to the river nile.

Thus that's why the daily destroy daily Palestinian homes to build there illegal jewish terrorist state.

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #115 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:19am

wally1 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Prophet Mohamed also said this,

Hadrat Sa‘id bin Zayd (may Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) as saying, “If anyone takes a span of land unjustly, its extent taken from seven earths will be tied round his neck on the Day of Resurrection." (Bukhari and Muslim)

So if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that.

The opposite is with jews.They think they own the whole land from the Euphrates rives to the river nile.

Thus that's why the daily destroy daily Palestinian homes to build there illegal jewish terrorist state.

"......if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that."

wally1,

Oh really ?

What you stated [above] is not true [.....and it actually contradicts Allah's command to the moslem].

How can you explain this ?

wally1,

Allah commands the moslem, that if a moslem lives near to a non-moslem, and, if the moslem can [if he has the power to do so], that he [the moslem] should kill the non-moslem, or, enslave him - SIMPLY BECAUSE HE IS A NOT A MOSLEM.

wally1,

How can you reconcile what you have stated [above], with what Allah and Mohammed have commanded [see below] ?

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06 Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Verses from the moslem 'holy' book, the Koran;

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice Reply #116 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you? Where are the muslims lining up to kill you? Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner. Your heart is corrupted.
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Karnal

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #117 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 12:59pm

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you?

Where are the muslims lining up to kill you?

Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner.

Your heart is corrupted.

Y's a Karmic Khristian and devout Googler. He's also become a bit of an amateur historian of late.

Google: Palestine = the Kingdom of Jordan.

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #118 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 7:02pm

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you?

Perhaps it wasn't the opportune moment ?

Quote:

July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php

Quote:

Where are the muslims lining up to kill you?

IMAGE...

Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems, and] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

wally1,

Looking at the message that is conveyed by those placards [image above], it seems to me, that there are a few moslems living in Australia who would like to slit my throat ?

wally1,

Do you believe that there are any moslems here in Australia, who would perceive that i am insulting Mohammed/ISLAM ?

wally1,

Would a moslem [living in Australia] be justified [in/by ISLAM], for slitting my throat ?

Quote:

Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner.

Your heart is corrupted.

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

wally1,

Where is the temple of my God ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustice
Reply #119 - Feb 19^th, 2014 at 7:11pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you?

Where are the muslims lining up to kill you?

Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner.

Your heart is corrupted.

Y's a Karmic Khristian and devout Googler. He's also become a bit of an amateur historian of late.

Google: Palestine = the Kingdom of Jordan.

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

Behead all those who insult the Prophet.

I'm hardly an atheist, Y.

I believe in Gud.

(peace be upon him)

Gud = = Mohammed

Moslem = = Mohammedan

IMAGE...

Mohammedan's, defending the honour of their deity.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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