Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11
Send Topic Print
The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias. (Read 23025 times)
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #105 - Feb 12th, 2014 at 12:24pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:05am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 3:13pm:
Misty, what is social equality? Really? I'm going to equate that to your own conditioning Sad  It really is quite sad, that  when someone speaks of social equality, you straight away assume one is talking about outcomes. No, no, no. Social equality means equal rights, and equal access to opportunities (health,education).  Would I say our current society offers this? Obviously not. And as a result of the inequalities that exist, this is where crime spawns from.  Can it ever be eradicated? Probably not, I agree with you. But the rises we have seen have come from the direct result of our society becoming less equal.


Rubbish. This is just the "progressive" narrative: claim social equality is the key to the promised land and that inequality is the cause of crime and suffering. What studies support this? Bring them out. I'll bet I can tear to shreds the research methodology and moral perspective employed by the authors.

Quote:
Can I get an example from you as to what you would consider an actual ethnic crime? An actual example, Misty. I'm curious to understand what crime is occurring in Australia that is accepted by the "ethnics" back home, but we deem intolerable. And then I'd be interested to investigate further to truly understand the underlying cause.


Drive by shootings appears to be a Middle Eastern speciality, the vast majority of which occur in the South-Western suburbs of Sydney. This is an import. Protecting one's honour and turf by violent means is common in Middle Eastern countries. Westerners have little concept of honour and therefore do not understand the motivations behind this type of violent retribution.

Resolution by violent means is common amongst a lot of non-Western cultures. It's funny that your type wants to import these people, as they would be the last people to fit into your idealised form of community.   




Come now Misty.  you know there are MANY studies.  http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=crime+social+inequality&btnG=&as_sd...

BUt I'm curious, I tried to find "Middle Eastern Speciality, drive by shootings" and I can't seem to find one study that proves this. Would you be able to assist?

Also, is it your assertion that ethnic crime occurs because people from different cultures think it's accepted? If that is the case, would you mind showing me the relevant laws that allow for drive-by shootings in Middle Eastern countries?

Resolution by violent means is common amongst many people, I agree. But generally this is the result of nurture, not nature, and the nurture coming from many factors: family upbringing, social (community) demographics, etc.   And last I checked, these werent just common to ethnic groups, but common across all suburbs in Australia. Perhaps not as prevalent in our "elite" suburbs, where it's more white collar, but that stat only helps prove the point I'm making.

In any case, Aqua, do I still need to pretend Misty is smart? Or can we end this charade?
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96641
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #106 - Feb 12th, 2014 at 12:55pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:16am:
While I do believe that people should have access to minimum subsistence, "equality" is just an excuse for the envious to tear down the more successful. When will the preachers of equality be happy? When everyone has a two BMWs in the drive way? When everyone has 2 plasma screen tvs? When everyone can have a disposable income of $2,000 a week? The list is endless.

Equality is actually a destructive social policy. It brings out envy, rage, and every other negative emotion. And the "progressives" want to base their entire social policy on such a thing. What a society they want to engineer; one where people are constantly agitated that Joe Blow down the road has an extra car in the drive way or a better ride on lawnmower.

The "progressives" are actually very bourgeois here;


Yes, Mistie, the "progressives" are very bourgeois here. They've infiltrated the Republican Party in the US, the Conservative party in the UK, and they've managed to Shanghai the global economic agenda in symposiums like the World Economic Forum.

They think the growing divide in wealth threatens global stability. In Thailand, it's led to the rise of billionaire-political dynasties like the Shinawatras, alongside the poverty of the rural farmers Thaksin Shinawatra has won over - an issue that has led the "Yellow Shirts" to question the viability of democracy itself.

In Russia, it's led to the anti-Putin movement, where Russian power is centralized in the hands of Putin and a few compliant billionaires who've been sold former state industries (with state loans brokered by Putin). Moscow is now the most expensive city in the world - while the rest of Russia are lucky to have jobs.

In China, it's a powerless rural mass who are forced to make way for state development and the business of the "princelings"; the ex-Communist billionaires/families who run China and now own much of the world's debt in the form of US bonds. China manages to supress political instability through its one-party state, but cracks are appearing in some areas and provinces. The internet, TV and print media are heavily censored, but many are questioning the new materialist values and the unparalleled (unequal) distribution of wealth. 

This economic model is influential throughout Africa, Latin America and South East Asia, along with the countries above. In the US, the gap has risen dramaticaly since the 1960s, peaking after the tax cuts and corporate welfare of the last Bush administration. CEO bonuses have reached the hundreds of millions. After the GFC, those who brokered the loans who caused it were paid out. After the Savings and Loans Crisis of the Reagan 80s, they were jailed or fined.

This is a model that has given over 60% of the world's resources to 4% of its population. It's a model that sees 90% of the world's population scramble for the spoils of the 10% who own the world's wealth, along with what we call the urban middle classes - that's people like you and me. We make up 10%.

And it's a model where such inequality directly causes environmental problems, food and energy insecurity, urban overcrowding and slums, and associated issues with public health, water, sanitation, and even famines.

In much of the developing world, such mass poverty is contrasted with a tiny corporate/political elite who bunker down behind razor wire in fortress-style compounds. In countries like South Africa, Peru and the Philippines, they employ SWAT-style security teams with machine guns and armoured vehicles, who are, for all intents and purposes, above the law. In parts of Latin America, they are the law, the drug cartels having taken over governments and the courts.

Putin's new private dacha is estimated to have cost 4 billion dollars to build. Helipads, bomb shelters, conferencing facilities, the lot. It's believed to be the most expensive private residence in history.

If you think the growing wealth gap is "just an excuse for the envious to tear down the more successful", you probably haven't been out much. After all, the successful aren't too happy about it themselves. In the US, many of the successful, like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and George Soros, have been arguing for higher taxes for years - they've even formed their own lobby group, the "Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength".

I wonder if they know how destructive a social policy equality is. Still, you work in the uni, so you'd know all about this. I doubt they teach economics at your leftist, "progressive" uni, Mistie. They're probably too busy teaching creative and critical thinking skills. Typical.

Still, these are important skills to have. After all, you never argue mere "moral" points of view, you only discuss facts and you always provide examples.

Joe Blow and his ride-on lawnmower is an excellent example, Mistie.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2014 at 7:31pm by Karnal »  
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #107 - Feb 12th, 2014 at 1:18pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:16am:
Karnal wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 4:39pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 3:01pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:50pm:
Misty, you know too well that I called you an extremist because of the colourful words you tried to use to describe issues. Remember?  And especially when you start talking about feces. 


Incorrect. Read here: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1391510268/255 Read particularly reply 258, as most of the conversation is in quote boxes. Nowhere did I use "colourful words". I merely described what topics I'd like to see on Q&A. You dismissed and ridiculed topics I'd like to see discussed on the show. It's not hard to see who is the extremist when someone flat out refuses to talk about some topics.

   
Quote:
May I also add Misty, my dearest old friend, that ethnic crime is a very nice strawman created by dummies like yourself to try and lay blame on the rise of crime on "multiculturism", instead of on the true cause, being the growing divide in social equality.


There is so much wrong here I do not know where to start. "Social equality"?! What is that? What does it even mean? 


Alevine didn't indicate a preference for "social equality", Mistie. He referred to a "divide in social equality".

By this, Alevine alludes to the growing divide in income distribution, as highlighted by such hotbeds of "progressivism" as the US government and the agenda at the recent World Economic Forum in Davos.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-h-morial/income-inequality_b_4688614.html

Personally, I don't think this wealth divide is as extreme in Australia as it is in other developed countries such as the US and UK, and especially in most developing countries. However, it's one of the most crucial issues facing the world today.

Who knows? it may even be more important than gay marriage and your concerns about anal sex.

How do you measure "social equality"? Easy: in capitalism, you measure it by income levels. 

Do they teach economics at the Acadame these days, Mistie?


While I do believe that people should have access to minimum subsistence, "equality" is just an excuse for the envious to tear down the more successful. When will the preachers of equality be happy? When everyone has a two BMWs in the drive way? When everyone has 2 plasma screen tvs? When everyone can have a disposable income of $2,000 a week? The list is endless.

Equality is actually a destructive social policy. It brings out envy, rage, and every other negative emotion. And the "progressives" want to base their entire social policy on such a thing. What a society they want to engineer; one where people are constantly agitated that Joe Blow down the road has an extra car in the drive way or a better ride on lawnmower.

The "progressives" are actually very bourgeois here; they are materialists just like the capitalists. Perhaps some Stoicism or Buddhist style meditation might calm their nerves better.

I fully agree that everyone should have access to basic human needs, but I completely disagree with the goal and driving force behind equality.


Yes, it's all about being envious.



The first 10 minutes explain it all for me.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96641
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #108 - Feb 12th, 2014 at 1:40pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:17am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:08am:
Strange, I remember the bikie gangs also loved the drive by.


Have you noticed what ethnicity they often are?


Scottish?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #109 - Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:23pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 12:24pm:


I am guessing you didn't actually read any of those. I read Social inequality and predatory criminal victimization and nowhere does it assert crime is caused by inequality. Its thesis is that certain demographics are more often victims of crime than others. This is a separate thesis to yours. I guess you just put a few words into the Google Scholar search engine then saw a few catchy titles that sounded like they may support your position.


Quote:
BUt I'm curious, I tried to find "Middle Eastern Speciality, drive by shootings" and I can't seem to find one study that proves this. Would you be able to assist?


You won't find any studies on this. Academics don't examine non-white ethnicities in a negative way (only whitey gets this special treatment). Often you have to rely on newspaper reports. Even then they rarely mention the ethnicity of those involved, but when they start naming names, it becomes obvious what ethnic background they have. It's a shame academics don't examine this area. They're willing to tell us how bad whitey's been in the past and present, but non-whitey gets off pretty easy.

Quote:
Also, is it your assertion that ethnic crime occurs because people from different cultures think it's accepted? If that is the case, would you mind showing me the relevant laws that allow for drive-by shootings in Middle Eastern countries?

Resolution by violent means is common amongst many people, I agree. But generally this is the result of nurture, not nature, and the nurture coming from many factors: family upbringing, social (community) demographics, etc.   And last I checked, these werent just common to ethnic groups, but common across all suburbs in Australia. Perhaps not as prevalent in our "elite" suburbs, where it's more white collar, but that stat only helps prove the point I'm making.


Family upbringing and social pressures do indeed play a part in behaviour. (Genetics also play a part, but I won't go there at the moment). If someone has been brought up in a culture where the way to resolve disputes or to save one's honour is violence, then that becomes hard to shake off. It often goes so deep it becomes an instinct. This is why second generation migrants are the only ones who can truly assimilate if they put in the effort (for non-Europeans). The first generation always bring their ways here. The second generation can be assimilated, but there's evidence they don't. Hence the drive bys in Sydney. Equality has nothing to do with this. This is about instinctual behaviour that is hard to shake off.



Quote:
do I still need to pretend Misty is smart? Or can we end this charade?


I wouldn't speak so soon, considering you just put up some links without reading them. That's pretty dumb.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #110 - Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 12:55pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:16am:
While I do believe that people should have access to minimum subsistence, "equality" is just an excuse for the envious to tear down the more successful. When will the preachers of equality be happy? When everyone has a two BMWs in the drive way? When everyone has 2 plasma screen tvs? When everyone can have a disposable income of $2,000 a week? The list is endless.

Equality is actually a destructive social policy. It brings out envy, rage, and every other negative emotion. And the "progressives" want to base their entire social policy on such a thing. What a society they want to engineer; one where people are constantly agitated that Joe Blow down the road has an extra car in the drive way or a better ride on lawnmower.

The "progressives" are actually very bourgeois here;


Yes, Mistie, the "progressives" are very bourgeois here. They've infiltrated the Republican Party in the US, the Conservative party in the UK, and they've managed to Shanghai the global economic agenda in symposiums like the World Economic Forum.

They think the growing divide in wealth threatens global stability. In Thailand, it's led to the rise of billionaire-political dynasties like the Shinawatras, alongside the poverty of the rural farmers Thaksin Shinawatra has won over - an issue that has led the "Yellow Shirts" to question the viability of democracy itself.

In Russia, it's led to the anti-Putin movement, where Russian power is centralized in the hands of Putin and a few compliant billionaires who've been sold former state industries (with state loans brokered by Putin). Moscow is now the most expensive city in the world - while the rest of Russia are lucky to have jobs.

In China, it's a powerless rural mass who are forced to make way for state development and the business of the "princelings"; the ex-Communist billionaires/families who run China and now own much of the world's debt in the form of US bonds. China manages to supress political instability through its one-party state, but cracks are appearing in some areas and provinces. The internet, TV and print media are heavily censored, but many are questioning the new materialist values and the unparalleled (unequal) distribution of wealth. 

This economic model is influential throughout Africa, Latin America and South East Asia, along with the countries above. In the US, the gap has risen dramaticaly since the 1960s, peaking after the tax cuts and corporate welfare of the last Bush administration. CEO bonuses have reached the hundreds of millions. After the GFC, those who brokered the loans who caused it were paid out. After the Savings and Loans Crisis of the Reagan 80s, they were jailed or fined.

This is a model that has given over 60% of the world's resources to 4% of its population. It's a model that sees 90% of the world's population scramble for the spoils of the 10% who own the world's wealth, along with what we call the urban middle classes - that's people like you and me. We make up 10%.

And it's a model where such inequality directly causes environmental problems, food and energy insecurity, urban overcrowding and slums, and associated issues with public health, water, sanitation, and even famines.

In much of the developing world, such mass poverty is contrasted with a tiny corporate/political elite who bunker down behind razor wire in fortress-style compounds. In countries like South Africa, Peru and the Philippines, they employ SWAT-style security teams with machine guns and armoured vehicles, who are, for all intents and purposes, above the law. In parts of Latin America, they are the law, the drug cartels having taken over governments and the courts.

Putin's new private dacha is estimated to have cost 4 billion dollars to build. Helipads, bomb shelters, conferencing facilities, the lot. It's believed to be the most expensive private residence in history.

If you think the growing wealth gap is "just an excuse for the envious to tear down the more successful", you probably haven't been out much. After all, the successful aren't too happy about it themselves. In the US, many of the successful, like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and George Soros, have been arguing for higher taxes for years - they've even formed their own lobby group, the "Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength".

I wonder if they know how destructive a social policy equality is. Still, you work in the uni, so you'd know all about this. I doubt they teach economics at your leftist, "progressive" uni, Mistie. They're probably too busy teaching creative and critical thinking skills. Typical.

Still, these are important skills to have. After all, you never argue mere "moral" points of view, you only discuss facts and you always provide examples.

Joe Blow and his ride-on lawnmower is an excellent example, Mistie.


Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins? It's a silly word that throws the topic into hazy territory. The aim should be to elevate the poor to minimum subsistence. Throw the word equality out.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #111 - Feb 13th, 2014 at 11:22pm
 
Misty, you completely misunderstood: I simply helped you do the search, because clearly you were a little confused on how to find studies on the matter. 

But if you insist, there's a book, "Inequality, Crime and Public Policy."  I won't bore you with the empirical evidence presented in the book, but I will tell you that the conclusion is:
Quote:
Lower class people engage in those crimes which do not involve the abuse of occupational power (ie white collar, non-violent) at a higher rate than middle class people

Quote:
There seem to be reasonable theoretical crimes grounds, in some cases supported by substantial empirical evidence, for predicting that a redistribution of wealth and power, from those who have much to those who have little, would simultaneously decrease the crimes of the powerful (white collar non violent) and the crimes of the powerless.


Quote:
Theories based on lower class deprivation and brutalization, powerlessness, blocked legitimate opportunities, broken homes, eroded respect of sons for fathers who are economic failures, and reward-cost calculations for crime, can be used to predict that the former type of crime (non-occupational) will be reduced by greater equality.


Then there's the book, simply titled, "Crime and inequality", which points out in the VERY BEGINNING, the introduction, that the linkage between social inequality and crime has been studied since 1918 in Europe, and in America since the 1930s. And goes on to say, "As we point out groups that are economically deprived, specifically young people, disadvantaged minority males, are also heavily involved in serious criminal offences, especially violent street crime." 

I'll leave you to go through more than 1 SOURCE in the link I gave you, and also not the VERY FIRST SOURCE. Cheesy  It's google search,it's good, but its still keyword based, so of course out of the 265,000 results, not all will be directly talking about inequality and crime rates.

And I would've thought someone of your calibre could do a simple analysis of crime stats in Australia, based on social demographic areas, and find that there is in fact strong signs of a linkage.

In any case, if you want something very recent, here is a thesis by a socialist (he admits it in intro but explains how it doesn't impact his judgement) from ANU: http://www.anu.edu.au/fellows/jbraithwaite/_documents/Manuscripts/InCrPublic.pdf

But I guess you're right. Sources like (I'm guessing youre from SA) THe Advertiser, or Today Tonight, provide much better empirical evidence than studies that have been for a hundred years.


As for crime being in genetics, yes I've heard of the studies. But I completely disagree with you that somehow an entire race of people can be subjected to the claim that they are more violent, on the basis that there is evidence to suggest crime is also genetic.  And I'd argue that given the evidence of linkage betwen social inequality and crime, it is highly understandable why a person who comes from a poor developing nation on the brink of war, or at times IN war, may be prone to violence more than a middle class suburbia person in Australia.   And the result of these people offending in Australia tells me of a poor lack of policy. Most of our migration is skilled, which to me would suggest the people that come to this country from all parts of the world are going to be from the middle class. It would only really be refugees, or people on humanitarian visas, that may be subjected more to violence. But like I said, that is understandble, and given we have an obligation, the onus is on our government to stop relying all the work on non-profit organisations, but in stead put their brains together and come up with a proper integration programme that actually helps these people, as opposed to simply saying, "Here have a miserable welfare, good luck."

Keep it up, you're really starting to amuse me.

Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
Phemanderac
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #112 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:55am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 11:22pm:
Misty, you completely misunderstood: I simply helped you do the search, because clearly you were a little confused on how to find studies on the matter. 

But if you insist, there's a book, "Inequality, Crime and Public Policy."  I won't bore you with the empirical evidence presented in the book, but I will tell you that the conclusion is:
Quote:
Lower class people engage in those crimes which do not involve the abuse of occupational power (ie white collar, non-violent) at a higher rate than middle class people

Quote:
There seem to be reasonable theoretical crimes grounds, in some cases supported by substantial empirical evidence, for predicting that a redistribution of wealth and power, from those who have much to those who have little, would simultaneously decrease the crimes of the powerful (white collar non violent) and the crimes of the powerless.


Quote:
Theories based on lower class deprivation and brutalization, powerlessness, blocked legitimate opportunities, broken homes, eroded respect of sons for fathers who are economic failures, and reward-cost calculations for crime, can be used to predict that the former type of crime (non-occupational) will be reduced by greater equality.


Then there's the book, simply titled, "Crime and inequality", which points out in the VERY BEGINNING, the introduction, that the linkage between social inequality and crime has been studied since 1918 in Europe, and in America since the 1930s. And goes on to say, "As we point out groups that are economically deprived, specifically young people, disadvantaged minority males, are also heavily involved in serious criminal offences, especially violent street crime." 

I'll leave you to go through more than 1 SOURCE in the link I gave you, and also not the VERY FIRST SOURCE. Cheesy  It's google search,it's good, but its still keyword based, so of course out of the 265,000 results, not all will be directly talking about inequality and crime rates.

And I would've thought someone of your calibre could do a simple analysis of crime stats in Australia, based on social demographic areas, and find that there is in fact strong signs of a linkage.

In any case, if you want something very recent, here is a thesis by a socialist (he admits it in intro but explains how it doesn't impact his judgement) from ANU: http://www.anu.edu.au/fellows/jbraithwaite/_documents/Manuscripts/InCrPublic.pdf

But I guess you're right. Sources like (I'm guessing youre from SA) THe Advertiser, or Today Tonight, provide much better empirical evidence than studies that have been for a hundred years.


As for crime being in genetics, yes I've heard of the studies. But I completely disagree with you that somehow an entire race of people can be subjected to the claim that they are more violent, on the basis that there is evidence to suggest crime is also genetic.  And I'd argue that given the evidence of linkage betwen social inequality and crime, it is highly understandable why a person who comes from a poor developing nation on the brink of war, or at times IN war, may be prone to violence more than a middle class suburbia person in Australia.   And the result of these people offending in Australia tells me of a poor lack of policy. Most of our migration is skilled, which to me would suggest the people that come to this country from all parts of the world are going to be from the middle class. It would only really be refugees, or people on humanitarian visas, that may be subjected more to violence. But like I said, that is understandble, and given we have an obligation, the onus is on our government to stop relying all the work on non-profit organisations, but in stead put their brains together and come up with a proper integration programme that actually helps these people, as opposed to simply saying, "Here have a miserable welfare, good luck."

Keep it up, you're really starting to amuse me.



Excellent riposte. Let's hope it is not pearls before swine, however, I fear that is being optimistic...
Back to top
 

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..
 
IP Logged
 
Phemanderac
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #113 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:56am
 
The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.


Nope, just accountability in action, I understand some here might not be familiar with that idea...
Back to top
 

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96641
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #114 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:33am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins?


No, Mistie, equality in things like access to basic health care, education, subsistance wages and safe working conditions.

I understand lawns and garbage bins are important to you. It's good to be neat and tidy, and these are worthwhile values to have.

But 90% of people on the planet have more pressing concerns, and this number is growing. The number of people with tidy lawns and bins is getting smaller, despite the burgening middle classes in countries like India and China.

Liberal-demokratic ideology holds that equality will happen the more countries develop. It says that as a middle classe emerges and grows, so will political freedoms, freedom of speech, popular elections, etc, etc, etc.

Equality is a value intrinsic to liberal-demokracy, and this is the dominant political ideology in the world today. The big geopolitical question now is whether China will develop in such a direction.

Yawn.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #115 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:42am
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:33am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins?


No, Mistie, equality in things like access to basic health care, education, subsistance wages and safe working conditions.

I understand lawns and garbage bins are important to you. It's good to be neat and tidy, and these are worthwhile values to have.

But 90% of people on the planet have more pressing concerns, and this number is growing. The number of people with tidy lawns and bins is getting smaller, despite the burgening middle classes in countries like India and China.

Liberal-demokratic ideology holds that equality will happen the more countries develop. It says that as a middle classe emerges and grows, so will political freedoms, freedom of speech, popular elections, etc, etc, etc.

Equality is a value intrinsic to liberal-demokracy, and this is the dominant political ideology in the world today. The big geopolitical question now is whether China will develop in such a direction.

Yawn.

Of course everyone cares about the size of their lawn.  It is the single most important factor to all aspects of life.

Yawn.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35214
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #116 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:10am
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:33am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins?


No, Mistie, equality in things like access to basic health care, education, subsistance wages and safe working conditions.

I understand lawns and garbage bins are important to you. It's good to be neat and tidy, and these are worthwhile values to have.

But 90% of people on the planet have more pressing concerns, and this number is growing. The number of people with tidy lawns and bins is getting smaller, despite the burgening middle classes in countries like India and China.

Liberal-demokratic ideology holds that equality will happen the more countries develop. It says that as a middle classe emerges and grows, so will political freedoms, freedom of speech, popular elections, etc, etc, etc.

Equality is a value intrinsic to liberal-demokracy, and this is the dominant political ideology in the world today. The big geopolitical question now is whether China will develop in such a direction.

Yawn.



these things have all been achieved in australia. the dream has been realised and the left should fall to their knees and give thanks and stop whinging Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #117 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:26am
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:10am:
Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:33am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins?


No, Mistie, equality in things like access to basic health care, education, subsistance wages and safe working conditions.

I understand lawns and garbage bins are important to you. It's good to be neat and tidy, and these are worthwhile values to have.

But 90% of people on the planet have more pressing concerns, and this number is growing. The number of people with tidy lawns and bins is getting smaller, despite the burgening middle classes in countries like India and China.

Liberal-demokratic ideology holds that equality will happen the more countries develop. It says that as a middle classe emerges and grows, so will political freedoms, freedom of speech, popular elections, etc, etc, etc.

Equality is a value intrinsic to liberal-demokracy, and this is the dominant political ideology in the world today. The big geopolitical question now is whether China will develop in such a direction.

Yawn.



these things have all been achieved in australia. the dream has been realised and the left should fall to their knees and give thanks and stop whinging Wink

you're crazy right? The middle class is dwindling, not increasing. And the separation between upper and middle is growing and growing, and not by the AMOUNT of people in the Upper class, but by they amount of wealth OWNED by the upper class.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35214
Gender: male
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #118 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:38am
 
We have equality of opportunity in australia.
ANYONE with the drive and determination can make it , to achieve anything they wish.
They are more likely to make it , if we start the resilience training, the toughening up, the "life wasnt meant to be easy", the "harden up princess" training as soon as possible.
We need to instil in young people (who have these wonderful health and education opportunities) that set backs, problems, obstacles, disappointments are all just "grist for the mill". that an obstacle is a stepping stone.
We need to get rid of the false leftard notion of the lawnmower parent who runs in front of the child, clearing a path so that the childs path is easy.
Only through dealing with obstacles (bullying, injustice, inequality) and overcoming them , will true self belief , self esteem and achievement be realised.

The greatest sportsmen (look at rafal nadal with sever arthritis at age 12) recognise this.
Lefties and hand wringers,  i dislike them not because i am some arrogant rich prick but becuase their doctrine, in the end , causes SO MUCH SUFFERING.
I'm not crazy, far from it. I have seen the light Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96641
Re: The Insiders sack Piers Akerman - more ABC bias.
Reply #119 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 11:30am
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:10am:
Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:33am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Yawn. Equality won't happen. It can't happen. Nor should it happen. Equal in what? Equality in everyone having 3 BMWs? Equality in the size of your lawn? Or equal to live in garbage bins?


No, Mistie, equality in things like access to basic health care, education, subsistance wages and safe working conditions.

I understand lawns and garbage bins are important to you. It's good to be neat and tidy, and these are worthwhile values to have.

But 90% of people on the planet have more pressing concerns, and this number is growing. The number of people with tidy lawns and bins is getting smaller, despite the burgening middle classes in countries like India and China.

Liberal-demokratic ideology holds that equality will happen the more countries develop. It says that as a middle classe emerges and grows, so will political freedoms, freedom of speech, popular elections, etc, etc, etc.

Equality is a value intrinsic to liberal-demokracy, and this is the dominant political ideology in the world today. The big geopolitical question now is whether China will develop in such a direction.

Yawn.



these things have all been achieved in australia. the dream has been realised and the left should fall to their knees and give thanks and stop whinging Wink


I completely agree, but what Australia has done is outsource its poverty to the developing world. Almost everything we buy is made somewhere else, food and services excluded.

Back in the 1980s, for example, Australia had clothing and footwear industries. Now, these industries have been outsourced to countries like China, Bangladesh and Vietnam.

There, labor costs are as little as a dollar a day. In Bangladesh, workers are locked in. If extra hours are required, security guards prohibit their exit. Shifts have been reported to go up to 48 hours. There is no overtime, no child care, no minimum safety requirements. When fires happen, workers burn. When buildings collapse, workers are crushed. When workers suffer from lung conditions relating to the cotton and polyester fibres they inhale, they are dismissed. There is no safety equiptment, social security, compensation, or pensions.

The clothes they produce are sold in Australian shops and department stores. We wear them. The workers who produce something as personal as the clothes we wear are an intrinsic part of our economy.

I agree, Aquascoot. We've achieved most of the conditions workers have faught for in this country since the 1880s. However, what we've done in the process is cut adrift our manufacturing sector and allow it - encourage it - to exploit others in the developing world.

This is a return to the triangular trade system of the 19th century - the "golden age" of globalisation. There, cotton was grown and harvested by slaves in the US, textiles were manufactured by cheap labour in India, and clothing was made by tailors for markets in England, Europe and the US. It was a system based on inequality, where workers were effectively owned by their "employers". It could not have happened if everyone had basic human rights.

While we have excellent conditions for workers in Australia, Bangladeshi workers are literally locked in until their labour is no longer required to meet our needs (cheap clothing). To pretend that this isn't happening, or that the system that perpetuates it doesn't exist, or that it's all about having a bigger lawn or being jealous of neighbours with two BMWs is like living in la la land.

Still, that's creative and critical thinking for you.

Yawn.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11
Send Topic Print