Australian Politics Forum - Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.

____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt. Reply #90 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:40am Maqqa wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:29am: Greens went to the 2013 election with this view and lost 30% of their voter base And Greens will go to the DD election in a few months with this position and gain it's vote back plus more because people have woken up to Abbott's AGW denial and lies.
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viewpoint

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #91 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:47am

____ wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

Greens went to the 2013 election with this view and lost 30% of their voter base

And Greens will go to the DD election in a few months with this position and gain it's vote back plus more because people have woken up to Abbott's AGW denial and lies.

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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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____

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #92 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:50am

viewpoint wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:47am:

____ wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

Greens went to the 2013 election with this view and lost 30% of their voter base

And Greens will go to the DD election in a few months with this position and gain it's vote back plus more because people have woken up to Abbott's AGW denial and lies.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Jennifer-Lawrence-Thinks-Youre-Fun...

Smiley

Latest Polling, Greens 12%

They're Back !!!

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viewpoint

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #93 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:58am

____ wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 8:01am:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 7:53am:

____ wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 7:45am:

Just because we are not liberal or labor does not mean we will not form majority government.
As the collapse continues and speeds up, voters will dump old parties and old ways.

Unless there is a massive change in belief and behaviour by the greens you will always be nothing more than a party of spoilers and fringe dwellers.

Even children eventually grow out of their childish ways and realise that behaving like a whiney petulant child wears thing with most people.

The core values of the Greens are the key to future survivial of the human race.

People will dump the old parties and either build satellite parties alongside the Greens or join the Greens.
We all know the old parties can not morph into new parties because they are full of dinosaurs.

The world loves a dreamer.........and sympathises with idiots........but you are a cut below either.......

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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #94 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:02pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

And is it still outgassing?

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

From what I've read in the peer-reviewed literature, yes it is.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bam

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #95 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:03pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Soren wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Bam wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 7:48pm:

AGW boosters should not be in government.
There is no evidence for climate change being man-caused. There is only conjecture. CO2 being a greenhouse gas does not mean that humans cause climate change.

Rubbish.

Firstly, where does the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Soooo..... what was the CO2 concentration in that tube?

At the beginning of the experiment, it was exactly the same as everywhere in the atmosphere : the said-to-be 'dangerous' current CO2 concentration that is supposed to be nearing the tipping point of no return. Yet nothing was blocked, the picture was perfect.

This is the kind of idiotic experiment that a lot of unthinking people are taken in by.

You have not answered the highlighted question.

Where did the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Perhaps from out-gassing from the oceans as the Little Ice Age ended??

You are grasping at straws here. Where is your proof that (1) this has happened, (2) this is a plausible mechanism, (3) this is responsible for ALL of the rise in atmospheric CO2, (4) that burning millions and millions of tonnes of carbon-containing fossil fuels has had no impact on atmospheric CO2?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #96 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:05pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:02pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

And is it still outgassing?

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

From what I've read in the peer-reviewed literature, yes it is.

So show us so we may read it too. Links please.

Also, are you reading all of the literature, or just selectively reading those bits of it that support your preconceptions and ignoring the bulk that does not?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #97 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:13pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

There is no CO2 in methane or nitrous oxide NO2.

Methane is CH4,one carbon 4 hydrogen.

Do CO2 levels rise at night when the sun is not shining on the plants?

Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2,should the leftists be restricting the sales of CO2 generators used in horticulture, why do the leftists ignore the use of CO2 generators in agriculture?]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=co2+generator

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #98 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Soren wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Bam wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 7:48pm:

AGW boosters should not be in government.
There is no evidence for climate change being man-caused. There is only conjecture. CO2 being a greenhouse gas does not mean that humans cause climate change.

Rubbish.

Firstly, where does the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Soooo..... what was the CO2 concentration in that tube?

At the beginning of the experiment, it was exactly the same as everywhere in the atmosphere : the said-to-be 'dangerous' current CO2 concentration that is supposed to be nearing the tipping point of no return. Yet nothing was blocked, the picture was perfect.

This is the kind of idiotic experiment that a lot of unthinking people are taken in by.

You have not answered the highlighted question.

Where did the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Perhaps from out-gassing from the oceans as the Little Ice Age ended??

You are grasping at straws here. Where is your proof that (1) this has happened, (2) this is a plausible mechanism, (3) this is responsible for ALL of the rise in atmospheric CO2, (4) that burning millions and millions of tonnes of carbon-containing fossil fuels has had no impact on atmospheric CO2?

Well were's your proof that
a) there was a 100ppm increase in Co2? No one was around to measure the 1850s levels, and paelo data isn't 100% accurate.
b) that Co2 actually has any effect on temperatures?

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bam

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #99 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:56pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

There is no CO2 in methane or nitrous oxide NO2.

Methane is CH4,one carbon 4 hydrogen.

Right there is ample proof that your grasp of facts on this issue is almost nonexistent.

(1) Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO₂ due to the presence of triatomic vibration modes that the CO₂ molecule lacks.
(2) Methane decomposes in the presence of oxygen and sunlight to CO₂ and water.

Quote:

Do CO2 levels rise at night when the sun is not shining on the plants?

Yes, they do. What's your point?

Quote:

Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2,should the leftists be restricting the sales of CO2 generators used in horticulture, why do the leftists ignore the use of CO2 generators in agriculture?]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=co2+generator

This is fallacious reasoning.

Your fallacy is appeal to nature

Quote:

You argued that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good or ideal.

Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt. Reply #100 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:59pm delete
Back to top	"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition. It's similar to a strawman fallacy" Bobbythebat IP Logged

gizmo_2655

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #101 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:06pm

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

There is no CO2 in methane or nitrous oxide NO2.

Methane is CH4,one carbon 4 hydrogen.

Right there is ample proof that your grasp of facts on this issue is almost nonexistent.

(1) Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO₂ due to the presence of triatomic vibration modes that the CO₂ molecule lacks.
(2) Methane decomposes in the presence of oxygen and sunlight to CO₂ and water.

Quote:

Do CO2 levels rise at night when the sun is not shining on the plants?

Yes, they do. What's your point?

Quote:

Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2,should the leftists be restricting the sales of CO2 generators used in horticulture, why do the leftists ignore the use of CO2 generators in agriculture?]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=co2+generator

This is fallacious reasoning.

Your fallacy is appeal to nature

Quote:

You argued that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good or ideal.

Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable.

Sorry bam, it's not a 'fallacy'.
The difference is that 'man caused' warming is something we can affect, but 'natural' warming is something we CAN'T affect.

IF the recent (since 1850 ish) increases in global temperatures are a result of human industry, then yes we might be able to affect the temps by changing our industrial/power systems.

IF however, the increases are not the result of human action, but instead part of a purely natural cycle, then nothing we do will affect the increases or the rate of increase and our only choice is to adapt our behaviour or living methods to meet the changes to climate.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bam

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #102 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:09pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Soren wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Bam wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 7:48pm:

AGW boosters should not be in government.
There is no evidence for climate change being man-caused. There is only conjecture. CO2 being a greenhouse gas does not mean that humans cause climate change.

Rubbish.

Firstly, where does the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Soooo..... what was the CO2 concentration in that tube?

At the beginning of the experiment, it was exactly the same as everywhere in the atmosphere : the said-to-be 'dangerous' current CO2 concentration that is supposed to be nearing the tipping point of no return. Yet nothing was blocked, the picture was perfect.

This is the kind of idiotic experiment that a lot of unthinking people are taken in by.

You have not answered the highlighted question.

Where did the 100ppm increase since 1850 in CO2 in the atmosphere come from?

Perhaps from out-gassing from the oceans as the Little Ice Age ended??

You are grasping at straws here. Where is your proof that (1) this has happened, (2) this is a plausible mechanism, (3) this is responsible for ALL of the rise in atmospheric CO2, (4) that burning millions and millions of tonnes of carbon-containing fossil fuels has had no impact on atmospheric CO2?

Well were's your proof that
a) there was a 100ppm increase in Co2? No one was around to measure the 1850s levels, and paelo data isn't 100% accurate.
b) that Co2 actually has any effect on temperatures?

Where are your answers to my questions? I did ask first.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #103 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:17pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

There is no CO2 in methane or nitrous oxide NO2.

Methane is CH4,one carbon 4 hydrogen.

Right there is ample proof that your grasp of facts on this issue is almost nonexistent.

(1) Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO₂ due to the presence of triatomic vibration modes that the CO₂ molecule lacks.
(2) Methane decomposes in the presence of oxygen and sunlight to CO₂ and water.

Quote:

Do CO2 levels rise at night when the sun is not shining on the plants?

Yes, they do. What's your point?

Quote:

Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2,should the leftists be restricting the sales of CO2 generators used in horticulture, why do the leftists ignore the use of CO2 generators in agriculture?]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=co2+generator

This is fallacious reasoning.

Your fallacy is appeal to nature

Quote:

You argued that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good or ideal.

Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable.

Sorry bam, it's not a 'fallacy'.

Yes, it is.

You said this: "Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2"

That is appeal to nature, giz.

Quote:

The difference is that 'man caused' warming is something we can affect, but 'natural' warming is something we CAN'T affect.

IF the recent (since 1850 ish) increases in global temperatures are a result of human industry, then yes we might be able to affect the temps by changing our industrial/power systems.

IF however, the increases are not the result of human action, but instead part of a purely natural cycle, then nothing we do will affect the increases or the rate of increase and our only choice is to adapt our behaviour or living methods to meet the changes to climate.

This non sequitur does not support your earlier point.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Time Australia Purged AGW Denialist From Govt.
Reply #104 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:31pm

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:17pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:13pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Nah—industrial production, population growth, the use of cars and trucks etc is causing the increase in CO2, methane, nitrous oxide etc.

Now we are getting outgassing—melting methane clathrates in the Arctic ocean as the tundra melts. Methane can be seen bubbling up—time for bullcrapping is over, it is time, high time to do something!

There is no CO2 in methane or nitrous oxide NO2.

Methane is CH4,one carbon 4 hydrogen.

Right there is ample proof that your grasp of facts on this issue is almost nonexistent.

(1) Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO₂ due to the presence of triatomic vibration modes that the CO₂ molecule lacks.
(2) Methane decomposes in the presence of oxygen and sunlight to CO₂ and water.

Quote:

Do CO2 levels rise at night when the sun is not shining on the plants?

Yes, they do. What's your point?

Quote:

Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2,should the leftists be restricting the sales of CO2 generators used in horticulture, why do the leftists ignore the use of CO2 generators in agriculture?]

https://www.google.com.au/#q=co2+generator

This is fallacious reasoning.

Your fallacy is appeal to nature

Quote:

You argued that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good or ideal.

Many 'natural' things are also considered 'good', and this can bias our thinking; but naturalness itself doesn't make something good or bad. For instance murder could be seen as very natural, but that doesn't mean it's good or justifiable.

Sorry bam, it's not a 'fallacy'.

Yes, it is.

You said this: "Of course many know plants grow faster with higher levels of CO2"

That is appeal to nature, giz.

Quote:

The difference is that 'man caused' warming is something we can affect, but 'natural' warming is something we CAN'T affect.

IF the recent (since 1850 ish) increases in global temperatures are a result of human industry, then yes we might be able to affect the temps by changing our industrial/power systems.

IF however, the increases are not the result of human action, but instead part of a purely natural cycle, then nothing we do will affect the increases or the rate of increase and our only choice is to adapt our behaviour or living methods to meet the changes to climate.

This non sequitur does not support your earlier point.

Where did I actually say that?

Or are you one of those nitwits who think that every skeptic on here is the same person, using 'socks'??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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