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Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history (Read 21779 times)
Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #60 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 4:47pm
 
Yadda wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 12:08am:

Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
       Tongue


Could you answer some basic questions about the country of Palestine ? :


1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What language did the Palestinians speak?
3. What writing [script] did they use?
4. What manuscripts did they leave?
5. What was their religion?
6. Where are their temples?
7. What monuments attest to their existence?
8. What were its borders?
9. What was the name of its capital?
10. What were its major cities?
11. What constituted the basis of its economy?
12. What was the name of the currency that they used?
13. What was its form of government?
14. What achievements have they accomplished?
15. What other peoples did Palestine interact with?
16. Where can one find any [historic] records, wherein the country of Palestine and its people are mentioned?
17. What archaeological sites can one name?
18. Where can one find the recorded history of these people?
19. Whom did they conquer?, or, were conquered by?
20. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation [or doubt]?
21. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
22. Can anyone name at least five Palestinian leaders before Arafat?
23. Finally, since there is no such recognised country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?


Further, why did these proud 'Palestinians' between 1948 and 1967, passively, allow themselves to be occupied by the Jordanians in the 'West Bank', and by the Egyptians in Gaza?


Those Q's  [above] are taken from;

Part 142 - Palestine and Palestinians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04iGfi9No6M

...........
...........


i




crickets chirping..........



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #61 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 6:09pm
 
Y, did anyone actually claim Palestine was a nation with a prestigious history?

I believe you are just constructing a gigantic strawman.

The only important point for me is that there were people living on the land, who a long heritage on that land, and were suddenly told to up and leave to make way for a jewish state.

On any other place on earth that would be called an injustice.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #62 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:00pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 6:09pm:
Y, did anyone actually claim Palestine was a nation with a prestigious history?

I believe you are just constructing a gigantic strawman.

The only important point for me is that there were people living on the land,

1/ who a long heritage on that land, and

2/ were suddenly told to up and leave to make way for a jewish state
.

On any other place on earth that would be called an injustice.




#2, Is a complete lie.

It is a complete fabrication and misrepresentation of the circumstances of the time - of what happened, leading up to 1948, and the formation of the state of Israel - and ignores, and leaves unstated, the reason why many 'Palestinians' left Israel.

And isn't that the truth, gandalf ?




gandalf,

Who was it, that told the 'Palestinians' to remove themselves from the land where they lived ?

And for what purpose were those 'Palestinians' told to to remove themselves from the land where they lived ?


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #63 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:34pm
 
Yadda, that old lie you are trying to peddle has been thoroughly debunked by Benny Morris (himself an avid zionist) and most other mainstream Israeli historians.

Quote:
In the 1980s Israel and United Kingdom opened up part of their archives for investigation by historians. This favored a more critical and factual analysis of the 1948 events. As a result more detailed and comprehensive description of the Palestinian exodus was published, notably Morris' The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem.[5] Morris distinguishes four waves of refugees, the second, third and fourth of them coinciding with Israeli military offensives, when Arab Palestinians fled the fighting, were frightened away, or were expelled.

A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

    Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
    The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
    Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
    Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
    Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
    Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
    Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
    The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
    Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
    Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
    Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6]


Note the first 7 factors (in order of importance) were directly attributable to either direct Israeli aggression and/or fear of Israeli atrocities (spurred on by actual atrocities such as Dier Yassin).

Quote:
Morris, with others of the New Historians school, concur that Arab instigation was not the major cause of the refugees' flight.[21] As regards the overall exodus, they state that the major cause of Palestinian flight was instead military actions by the Israeli Defence Force and fear of them. In their view, Arab instigation can only explain a small part of the exodus and not a large part of it.[22][23][24][25][26][27] Moreover, Morris and Flapan have been among the authors whose research has disputed the official Israeli version claiming that the refugee flight was in large part instigated by Arab leaders


Mostly the zionists achieved the ethnic cleansing by psychological intimidation rather than direct expulsion:

Quote:
Khalidi illustrates the psychological warfare of the Haganah by the use of the Davidka mortar. He writes that it was a "favorite weapon of the Zionists", which they used against civilians: "the Davidka tossed a shell containing 60 lbs. of TNT usually into crowded built-up civilian quarters where the noise and blast maddened women and children into a frenzy of fear and panic."[175]

Various authors mention specific cases in which the Yishuv engaged in shelling of civilians:

    Morris says that during the battle of Tiberias the Haganah engaged in bombarding the Arab population with mortars[181]
    Morris says that during the exodus of Haifa a primary aim of mortar barrages was demoralisation: "The Haganah mortar attacks of 21–22 April were primarily designed to break Arab morale in order to bring about a swift collapse of resistance and speedy surrender.... But clearly the offensive, and especially the mortarring, precipitated the exodus. The three inch mortars 'opened up on the market square [where there was] a great crowd ... a great panic took hold. The multitude burst into the port, pushed aside the policemen, charged the boats and began to flee the town', as the official Haganah history later put it."[182] According to Pappé[183] this mortar barrage was deliberately aimed at civilians to precipitate their flight from Haifa.
    Nathan Krystall writes: "As a precursor to its attack on Qatamon, the Zionist forces subjected the neighborhood to weeks of heavy artillery shelling. On 22 April, the Arab National Committee of Jerusalem ordered its local branches to relocate all women, children, and elderly people from the neighborhood."[184]
    In his report concerning the fall of Jaffa the local Arab military commander, Michel Issa, writes: "Continuous shelling with mortars of the city by Jews for four days, beginning 25 April, ... caused inhabitants of city, unaccustomed to such bombardment, to panic and flee."[185] According to Morris the shelling was done by the Irgun. Their objective was "to prevent constant military traffic in the city, to break the spirit of the enemy troops [and] to cause chaos among the civilian population in order to create a mass flight".[186] High Commissioner Cunningham wrote a few days later "It should be made clear that IZL attack with mortars was indiscriminate and designed to create panic among the civilian inhabitants."[186]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #64 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 11:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:34pm:
Yadda, that old lie you are trying to peddle has been thoroughly debunked by Benny Morris (himself an avid zionist) and most other mainstream Israeli historians.





And Benny Morris ?

Benny Morris is the discredited academic, who blatantly refused to acknowledge counter facts in historic records, which disagree with his 'New History' hypothesis, as it relates to the 'dispersion of Palestine's Arab society during the 1948 war'.

Yep, Benny Morris sounds like just your typical, garden variety [intellectually corrupt] 'academic' to me!!



Dictionary;
discredit = =
· v. harm the good reputation of.      cause to seem false or unreliable.
· n. loss or lack of reputation.




Quote:
Benny Morris's Reign of Error, Revisited
Spring 2005


"....Among the new historians, none has been more visible or more influential than Benny Morris, a professor at Ben-Gurion University in Beersheba, whose 1987 book, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947-1949, became the New Historian's definitive work.
....Far from unearthing new facts or offering a novel interpretation of the Palestinian exodus, The Birth recycled the standard Arab narrative of the conflict. Morris portrayed the Palestinians as the hapless victims of unprovoked Jewish aggression.
....While laying blame for the Palestinian refugee crisis on the actions of the Israeli Defense Forces and its pre-state precursor, the Haganah, Morris failed to consult the millions of declassified documents in their archives, even as other historians used them in painstaking research.
....Consider, for example, Morris's charge that Herzl wished to dispossess Palestinian Arabs because of his fear that the Jewish state would lack viability if it were to contain a large Arab minority. Morris bases this assertion only upon a truncated paragraph from Herzl's June 12, 1895 diary entry, which had already been a feature of Palestinian propaganda for decades.[16] But this entry was not enough to support such a claim. Below is the complete text, with the passages omitted by Morris in italics:....
[and the article continues, citing Theodor Herzl, and showing the very clear and shocking!! omissions from Herzl's statement, made by that absolute scoundrel, Benny Morris - Yadda]

....The Birth Revisited continues the stubborn refusal of Morris to base his arguments and conclusions on archival evidence and the historical record. Far from confirming and reinforcing his arguments, archival documents demonstrate that "the Palestinian refugee problem" was the creation of Palestinian and other Arab leaders, not of the Zionists."

http://www.meforum.org/711/benny-morriss-reign-of-error-revisited






One prominent fact i have learnt about moslems, is that [without exception, to my perception] moslems are shameless, shameless liars.

And moslems have a preoccupation with re-writing their own history, so as to always portray themselves and fellow moslems as victims, or as innocents, or as virtuous human beings.

And what what an opportunity for historic revision, the moslem conflict with Jews in the Middle East has presented to the sick, sick and callously deceitful mind, of the moslem.



But slowly, ever so slowly, everyone who has anything to do with the moslem community, [i hope!] is coming to understand that the only skerrick of 'virtue' in the moslem, is the 'apparent' [but falsely projected] virtue in the shameless, shameless lies, that continually escape from the lips of every moslem creature.

"We moslems are a very virtuous people. So you can admire us!"


Grin           Grin           Grin

What a sick, sick joke obscenity, such an affirmation is, coming from moslem lips.





+++


Taqiyya[/size]
Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

[/quote]
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1366856138/763#763





Taqiyya
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm





ANOTHER SHAMELESS, LYING MOSLEM....
Re Sheik Hilali,
PLEASE WATCH THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO.....
Sheik Hilaly Caught vandalizing his own Mosque
                 goto 20s,   goto 3m 01s,   goto 4m 01s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9O5KPI4qTI

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #65 - Jun 2nd, 2014 at 7:58am
 
Yadda wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 11:19pm:

One prominent fact i have learnt about moslems, is that [without exception, to my perception] moslems are shameless, shameless liars.





In the above, i am not suggesting that every moslem lies, on every occasion that he she opens her/his mouth, to speak.

But i am suggesting that there is ample evidence to suggest that on every occasion where a moslem is speaking to someone [i.e. a naive non-moslem - who the moslem believes to be uninformed - about the tenets and laws of ISLAM] the moslem will intentionally misrepresent [i.e. LIE! about] the nature and true character of ISLAM, to that person.

And, that if the opportunity presents itself [to the moslem] to advance their own interests through lying, that on every occasion where a moslem is speaking to someone [i.e. a naive non-moslem - who the moslem believes to be uninformed - about their true intentions and their true motivations] the moslem will blatantly, and often maliciously, LIE and misrepresent their own circumstances and interests to that person - often, to the cost of an innocent 3rd party.





e.g.
A MOSLEM SCHOLAR URGING MOSLEMS, IN THE UK, TO MAINTAIN A DECEITFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UK NON-MOSLEM COMMUNITY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF MOSLEMS STRENGTHENING A MALICIOUS AND VIOLENT INTENT [on the moslem part, towards those who are not moslems] #1,

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece




e.g.
IN A MOSQUE, IN THE UK, A MOSLEM COMMUNITY LEADER FEIGNING RESPECT AND FRIENDSHIP - TO A GROUP OF NON-MOSLEM VISITORS, #2,

Quote:
"The Undercover Mosque: The return"
[...from the UK]
"A group of Christians visiting the mosque and the preacher and the Women's Circle treat [the Christians] kindly and talk about,
'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."



THE KICKER...
"Just as soon as that group of visitors [the Christians] leaves, the language changes completely. 'CHRISTIANITY IS VILE', the preacher says....."



Source;
Quote:
ABC Radio National Religion interview transcript  - "The Undercover Mosque: The return"
".....Stephen Crittenden: .....your program highlights a certain kind of duplicity. When they're caught out, individuals don't miss a [beat], they just say they've been taken out of context....
David Henshaw: ......Regent's Park Mosque is officially committed to inter-faith dialogue....."

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionreport/the-undercover-mosqu...


The term, "inter-faith dialogue" [as being used by moslems] = = code for
"don't frighten the horses"
[in the Christian churches].

'We moslems should continue to pretend that our stance towards Christians is;'
'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."



+++


e.g.
MALICIOUSLY LYING, WITH A FORESEEABLE CONSEQUENCE, WHICH WOULD HAVE MATERIALLY DAMAGED THE REPUTATION AND THE LIVELIHOOD OF A COMPLETELY INNOCENT PERSON


Carnita Matthews
Islamic Moral Reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie-mdEeBsjg



Carnita Matthews caught out using playing the racist game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZzdA4GlPl4



Carnita Matthews Police Vehicle Stop FULL VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he8MOGnP42Y



Carnita Matthews
Muslim Woman Lies and Muslim Man Defends Her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP755L0OvGk



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« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2014 at 8:07am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #66 - Jun 2nd, 2014 at 8:27am
 
Perhaps you were too busy character assassinating Benny Morris (who as I stated before is an avid zionist, and agrees with the expulsion of Palestinians), you missed this little tidbit:

Quote:
A document
produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948
and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":


As quoted before - the top factors listed by the Israel's very own intelligence service - were Israeli aggression or fear of Israeli aggression. This was not written by Morris.

Also worth noting:

Quote:
"In the past two decades, following the powerful reverberations (concerning the cause of the Nakba) triggered by the publication of books written by those dubbed the “New Historians,” the Israeli archives revoked access to much of the explosive material. Archived Israeli documents that reported the expulsion of Palestinians, massacres or rapes perpetrated by Israeli soldiers, along with other events considered embarrassing by the establishment, were reclassified as “top secret.”


Yadda, does Efraim Karsh or any other of your head-in-the-sand "historians" have an answer to this and other Israeli documents that clearly state that Israeli aggression was the main factor in the flight?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #67 - Jun 2nd, 2014 at 9:38am
 

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392646116/62#62


It is clear that lying is so pervasive within the moslem 'camp',
and that moslems will blatantly lie to us on almost every issue, how can we [non-moslems] believe, and have confidence in anything which moslems tell us ?

How can we [the non-moslem community] believe anything that is communicated to us [by moslems], when again, and again, and again, moslems are shown to be constantly being duplicitous and deceitful in their communication with us ?




With the moslem, the direct circumstance of the moslem, himself, always dictates [for the moslem] what 'truth' is, and dictates the type and the nature of the relationship that the moslem has with those around him, who are not moslems;

IMAGE...
...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:
How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong


"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.
When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...







How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"


Quote:
"A Study in Muslim Doctrine

...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine



Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit



Taqiyya

Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google







QUESTION;
How can anyone [e.g. non-moslems] have a meaningful relationship with another person [e.g. a moslem], when that 2nd person [e.g. a moslem] is constantly and intentionally deceiving them - for malicious and nefarious reasons.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #68 - Jun 2nd, 2014 at 12:30pm
 
So Y, your answer to claims made by Israeli jews - whether they be mainstream historians or declassified contemporary IDF documents, is to rant and rant about lies made by muslims.

I must say, you gave up on this debate faster than even I expected.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #69 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:16pm
 
crickets chirping?
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Yadda
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #70 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 6:09pm:
Y, did anyone actually claim Palestine was a nation with a prestigious history?

I believe you are just constructing a gigantic strawman.

The only important point for me is that there were people living on the land,

1/ who a long heritage on that land, and

2/ were suddenly told to up and leave to make way for a jewish state
.

On any other place on earth that would be called an injustice.




#1, is irrelevant.


gandalf,

Just because some tenants have had 'a long heritage on that land', does not equate with the tenants owning the land - because they have had 'a long heritage on that land'.

The land belongs to God.

The God of Israel.




Exodus 4:22
....Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:


Matthew 21:38
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.


Psalms 83:1
Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2  For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3  They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4  They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5  For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
6  The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
7  Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8  Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.





gandalf,

I would assume [that being a believer in, and a professed servant of God] that you would agree, that the land [of Israel] belongs to God ?

But the argument that you [as a moslem would make] is that you contest/contend that the Jews re-wrote the Old Testament bible, so as to favour their own claims to that land ?




gandalf,

You choose to believe what moslems have been taught - about the destiny of the moslems.

I choose to believe what i have read in [what i believe to be] God's word - the Holy bible.



And never the twain shall meet, eh.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #71 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 4:20pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:44pm:
But the argument that you [as a moslem would make] is that you contest/contend that the Jews re-wrote the Old Testament bible, so as to favour their own claims to that land ?


Rubbish.

As usual you resort to treating me as a caricature so that you can completely ignore my actual arguments.

No one's perspective of this tragic conflict starts 5000 years ago in irrelevant history, it starts mere decades ago. The Hargana and Irgun troops who cleared Palestinian villages weren't thinking of some alleged divine promise made 5000 years ago (well some of them might have, but not many), they were thinking of practical mundane worldly considerations like controlling resources and removing a perceived threat.

Yadda wrote on Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:44pm:
The land belongs to God.

The God of Israel.


The land belongs to the God of Israel, so that gives the jews the right to ethnically cleanse the non-jewish inhabitants right?

I don't know about your God Y, but the God I follow wouldn't sanction the violent eviction of people off their livelihoods and heritage - to become destitute refugees.

There is a significant sect of orthodox jews who oppose Israel for the exact same reason.

Orthodox jews in solidarity with the Palestinians:

...

But please continue with your delusion that this is all just muslim propaganda.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #72 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 6:18pm
 
Allah sanctions violent invasion by muslims in order to thieve their land, houses and riches.

from the qur'an:

Al-Ahzab 33:27:
And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And Allâh is Able to do all things.

If you have not trodden in a land before, you have invaded it, and forcibly taken their houses,riches and land.
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moses
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #73 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 6:55pm
 
In May 1948, Israel became an independent state after Israel was recognised by the  United Nations as a country in its own right within the Middle East

Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence – May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel.The invading Arabs states called for the Arab population to leave Israel, they declared it would be ("a war of extermination and a momentous massacre"). They would drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea.

muslims were told to leave Israel by the invading muslim armies.

Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions.

Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews.


Although the muslim armies enormously outnumbered the Jews, the muslims were soundly defeated (they were flogged on every front) 

Egypt signed a peace settlement in February 1949, and over the next few months Lebanon, Jordan and Syria did the same culminating in peace in July 1949. Iraq simply withdrew her forces but did not sign any peace settlement.

The truth is muslims caused the Palestinian refugee problem, why don't those muslims (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq) who caused the problem, take the refugees?
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Mattywisk
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Re: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
Reply #74 - Jun 3rd, 2014 at 7:21pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 3rd, 2014 at 4:20pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:44pm:
But the argument that you [as a moslem would make] is that you contest/contend that the Jews re-wrote the Old Testament bible, so as to favour their own claims to that land ?


Rubbish.

As usual you resort to treating me as a caricature so that you can completely ignore my actual arguments.

No one's perspective of this tragic conflict starts 5000 years ago in irrelevant history, it starts mere decades ago. The Hargana and Irgun troops who cleared Palestinian villages weren't thinking of some alleged divine promise made 5000 years ago (well some of them might have, but not many), they were thinking of practical mundane worldly considerations like controlling resources and removing a perceived threat.

Yadda wrote on Jun 3rd, 2014 at 3:44pm:
The land belongs to God.

The God of Israel.


The land belongs to the God of Israel, so that gives the jews the right to ethnically cleanse the non-jewish inhabitants right?

I don't know about your God Y, but the God I follow wouldn't sanction the violent eviction of people off their livelihoods and heritage - to become destitute refugees.

There is a significant sect of orthodox jews who oppose Israel for the exact same reason.

Orthodox jews in solidarity with the Palestinians:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/2011/9/b4015e93-c734-43e4-b6cf-851ef512bde4...

But please continue with your delusion that this is all just muslim propaganda.


Gee a whole 5 people certainly wouldn't be muslim propaganda now would it.  Roll Eyes



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Are you burning with the Peace of Islam ?
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