Australian Politics Forum - Medicare: It didn't that long

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38851 Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #15 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:34am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 4:40am: Quote: We can't all afford private health insurance. How is that my problem? Mr Hicks: 1. Do you pay tax in Australia? 2. What ought the Australian Government do with that tax you pay (if any?)
Back to top	IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #16 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:42am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 4:36am:

Quote:

We don't want an American user pays type health system. Where only the well off are looked after. Leave Medicare and bulk billing alone. Sad

Why should my taxes pay for someone else?

You do not live in Australia. Why are you pretending that you pay taxes in Australia?

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #17 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:44am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 4:40am: Quote: We can't all afford private health insurance. How is that my problem? Because you have put people out of work and shifted their jobs offshore so you can make money out of it.
Back to top	You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument. IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #18 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:46am

Quote:

We don't want an American user pays type health system. Where only the well off are looked after. Leave Medicare and bulk billing alone. Sad

I agree ~ with certain reservations.

The Abbott government is now on a mission to scrap our First World socialised medical system that is the envy of the world, and why they rioted on Manus Island when they heard they'll be using witch doctors in PNG instead of Bulk Billing in Australia.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #19 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:47am And of course the filthy Coalition told lies and distanced themselves from the $6 co-payment proposal during the Griffith by-election campaign. Now that this by-election is done, they have come clean. Liars. They should be shot and their bodies put in chaff bags and dumped at sea.
Back to top	You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument. IP Logged

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #20 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 7:53am Quote: We don't want an American user pays type health system. Where only the well off are looked after. Leave Medicare and bulk billing alone. And this proposal is NOT about bringing in an American user pays type system.
Back to top	"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition. It's similar to a strawman fallacy" Bobbythebat IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35090
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #21 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:05am

Unfortunately health is a bottomless pit.
Its also very $$$$ loaded towards those at the end of their lives.
The total government spend per person, for the whole of life spend per person, half of this cost will be incurred in the 12 months leading up to their death.
So with the number of 80 year olds expected to triple in the next 15 years , this cost alone (ie the cost of providing high tech , state of the art , treatment to an old broken down, often demented population) will bankrupt the system.

Trying not to be harsh, a $10,000 knee reconstruction on a 20 year old laborer makes good economic sense if it keeps him in work,
The same op on granny in the nursing home does not.
Is the system gutsy enough to say this?
Is the system gutsy enough to say, "we can only afford 10 ICU beds at $6000 a day. These will be going to the 20 year old MVA victim in casualty and the 90 year old cancer patient on chemo will be moved out.
These are tough decisions but the current system is unsustainable and a frank and fearless discussion is what we need.
Certainly a lot of end stage diabetics (there are 100,000's of these) with one leg missing, on dialysis, who have had a stroke would probably rather "gift" the $50,000 it would cost to have another amputation to their grandchildrens mortgage, then become a dual amputee on dialysis being tube fed. I know i would.

Back to top

IP Logged

imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #22 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:12am Yes well said Bam, they sure changed their tune, didn't they?.
Back to top	IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35090
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #23 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:18am

They are really going after the wrong end of the system. Australias spend on primary care (GP's ) has declined as a percentage over time.
It is the spend on very very expensive high tech and high end pharmaceuticals that will cripple the system

If a drug to treat end stage breast cancer (ie prolong life by 6 months with no prospect of a cure) costs $100,000 a patient. Should this be listed on the pbs and paid for by the taxpayer. What if its 2 months, What if its 5 years.
These are the difficult questions that the government need to discuss with the public.
Doctors will not (and should not) be making decisions based on economics. They will always do what it best and bugger the cost. The taxpayer and the government need to decide what level of care they want and then provide it efficiently and equitably.

Back to top

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #24 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:24am

Medicare / Medibank was unsustainable from the outset and is even more unsustainable now and without reform will go belly up.

The 'levy' has rarely changed to cover the compounding cost.

The cost is going to continue to compound as the population ages and the number of income tax-payers as a proportion of the population declines.

F A C T

How is it going to be funded? Labor always uses debt (which is unsustainable). The Coalition use cuts to other services (which is also unsustainable)?

The Coalition proposes a co-payment and the Lefties have a dumby spit because apparently this is 'unfair'....bullchitt.

TAX reform and IR reform is the answer.

* Increase the GST
* Get rid of the stupid anti-enterprise IR policies such as penalty rates.
* A user-pays co-payment is essential
* Redistribute a percentage of the superannuation guarantee payment and / or earnings into a health insurance premium (super funds to it now with life insurance)

The bottom line is taxes need to be increased. BUT if taxes are increased the non-income tax payers have to bear some of the cost as well with a token co-payment and an increased GST bill.

Non-income tax payers cannot continue to get a free ride off the tax-payer.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38851
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #25 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:35am

Tony Abbott's own words:

Quote:

We will be a no surprises, no excuses government, because you are sick of nasty surprises and lame excuses from people that you have trusted with your future...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbotts-campaign-launch-speech-full-transcript-20130825-2sjhc.html#ixzz2toHeZXy0

Lying piece of mud.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #26 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:38am

IMO the "baby boomer" thing is BS propaganda anyway. It was a yank thing that our pollies adopted because it gives the impression there are a really big number of old ppl suddenly. Thing is population grows and the old ppl are growing @ the same rate as they always have. the govts have spent our pensions and are trying to blame it on us - as usual.

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Medicare: It didn't that long
Reply #27 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 9:01am

Swagman wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:24am:

Medicare / Medibank was unsustainable from the outset and is even more unsustainable now and without reform will go belly up.

The 'levy' has rarely changed to cover the compounding cost.

So put up the Medicare levy. No brainer.

Quote:

The cost is going to continue to compound as the population ages and the number of income tax-payers as a proportion of the population declines.

F A C T

How is it going to be funded? Labor always uses debt (which is unsustainable). The Coalition use cuts to other services (which is also unsustainable)?

End the ridiculous inconsistency where self-funded retirees are kept out of the taxation system while being a part of the cohort that consumes the bulk of the health care budget. That is what is causing the unsustainability.

Quote:

The Coalition proposes a co-payment and the Lefties have a dumby spit because apparently this is 'unfair'....bullchitt.

It is unfair because the largest consumers of the health care budget pay the least towards it even though many of them can easily afford to do so.

Quote:

TAX reform and IR reform is the answer.

* Increase the GST
* Get rid of the stupid anti-enterprise IR policies such as penalty rates.
* A user-pays co-payment is essential
* Redistribute a percentage of the superannuation guarantee payment and / or earnings into a health insurance premium (super funds to it now with life insurance)

These proposals do nothing towards addressing the sustainability of the health care budget but are just another tax grab to extort more silver from the poor by force to pay for the extravagant largesse of the wealthy.

A more sensible approach that goes to the heart of the sustainability issue is ending the taxation moratorium on self-funded retirees. This would raise more revenue than the entire health budget, so use some of this extra revenue to improve funding for aged care.

Quote:

The bottom line is taxes need to be increased. BUT if taxes are increased the non-income tax payers have to bear some of the cost as well with a token co-payment and an increased GST bill.

Non-income tax payers cannot continue to get a free ride off the tax-payer.

Start with the self-funded retirees. The ones that earn good income from investing their superannuation and paying very little tax on it while at the same time being some of the largest consumers of the health care budget.

* Make superannuation lump sums tax free
* Tax investment income from investing superannuation as normal and end the tax moratorium
* Phase this in over 10 years

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #28 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 9:02am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 4:36am: Quote: We don't want an American user pays type health system. Where only the well off are looked after. Leave Medicare and bulk billing alone. Why should my taxes pay for someone else? They dont, unless you lie about where you live.
Back to top	freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL Click onWWW below IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Medicare: It didn't that long Reply #29 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 9:07am What does "It didn't that long" mean?
Back to top	IP Logged