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Did our Navy do the right thing (Read 3145 times)
John S
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Did our Navy do the right thing
Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:32pm
 
...
The decision to investigate the Australian navy’s actions in towing back asylum boats could have been an opportunity for greater transparency


The release on Wednesday of the review into the circumstances of how and why the Australian navy repeatedly entered Indonesian waters might have been expected finally to reveal information about Australia’s operations in pushing back asylum boats. The government has maintained that Operation Sovereign Borders cannot be fully disclosed because it would jeopardise national as well as operational security.

The revelations that Operation Sovereign Borders had violated Indonesia’s territorial sovereignty came despite assurances that no such incursions would occur. These concerns prompted the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service and the Acting Chief of the Defence Force to investigate:

…the facts and circumstances surrounding the entry of Australian vessels into Indonesian waters.


The decision to investigate and report on one aspect of Operation Sovereign Borders appeared to be an opportunity for greater transparency. However, despite the review of over 2200 documents for the purposes of constructing a “narrative of events”, we have learned extremely little.

The nub of the executive summary that has been publicly released is that each of the six incursions:

…arose from incorrect calculation of the boundaries of Indonesian waters rather than as a deliberate action or navigational error.


But what were the Australian vessels doing that brought them so close to Indonesia? Were they just patrolling and looking to see if any boats were leaving Indonesia with asylum seekers on board? Or were they actively towing (pushing) vessels with irregular migrants back to Indonesia?

The answers to these questions have different legal consequences for Australia.

Australian warships are allowed to enter Indonesian waters if they are merely passing through. This is the right of innocent passage that exists in the territorial sea and in archipelagic waters.

A warship violates the right of innocent passage if it undertakes activities considered by the coastal state to threaten its peace, good order and security. The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), to which Australia and Indonesia are parties, sets out a range of activities that would render passage non-innocent. Among these are the unloading of persons in violation of the coastal state’s migration laws.

As Australia is acknowledging a violation of Indonesia’s sovereignty, then it may be concluded that the Australian warships were not just passing through, but undertook activities that are contrary to Indonesia’s peace, good order and security.

If Australia was towing back vessels, where were these vessels intercepted? To assess the legality of actions at sea, it is essential to know where they happen and what was going on at the time.

On the high seas, Australia may not interfere with a foreign-flagged vessel. There are very limited exceptions to this principle because the exclusive authority a flag state has over its vessel is prioritised under international law. We don’t know if the vessels Australia is intercepting are necessarily flagged to Indonesia.

If a vessel is very small and not flagged or registered to any particular state, an Australian warship could exercise the right of visit on the high seas. This right allows Australia to approach and potentially board the vessel to search it or question those onboard.

The right of visit does not necessarily allow for the arrest or detention of the vessel and its crew and passengers. At best guess, pushing back or towing back boats would seem to involve some amount of detention.

In 2012, the European Court of Human Rights held Italy liable for violating the human rights of asylum seekers who were intercepted at sea and taken to Libya. Has Australia similarly exercised “continuous and exclusive de jure and de facto control”, as the European Court found, triggering human rights obligations? If the irregular migrants were put on lifeboats and steered towards Indonesia, then presumably so.

The recommendations of the review into incursions into Indonesian waters are focused on improving the training of those Australian officials involved in Operation Sovereign Borders. This includes the need to “ensure a tactical appreciation of UNCLOS”. It is to be hoped that such an appreciation could extend beyond a better knowledge of Indonesia’s maritime boundaries.


http://theconversation.com/indonesia-incursion-report-provides-more-questions-th...
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BigOl64
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #1 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:42pm
 


Time to have the whiney b1tch socialist do this job and free the poor bastard navy to do the job they enlisted for.

This is a bullsh1t job and well below the dignity of the navy, time to let these enthusiastic socialist spend time away from freinds and family for weeks on end to deal with these people; and not to necessarily have an 'open door' policy either but to prevent them from killing themselves at sea and secure our borders as the government wants


That would make everyone happy, especially the bleeding heart socialist who would want to this type of work, since they complain bitterly about everone else.


Ahhh except socilaist never actually do anything but complain about everyone else and are generally too lazy or too stupid to be part of the solution. too bad a good oportunity missed




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cods
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #2 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm
 
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
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Aussie
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #3 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?
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woody2014
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #4 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?


Angry Angry  Taxi driver molests disabled girl..  All taxi drivers do  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD  DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH
 
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Sparky
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #5 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?
Torturing people at sea hey? I can see what side you are on.
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Aussie
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:00pm
 
Sparky wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?
Torturing people at sea hey? I can see what side you are on.


Not too hard to work out.   I'm sure you are on the same side as me on those issues as well.
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woody2014
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:02pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?





Did you mean: taxi driver molested disabled girl





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Adelaide taxi driver charged with indecent assault | Perth Now



www.perthnow.com.au/...taxi-driver.../story-fndo6d4b-1226535587869‎






Dec 12, 2012 - A TAXI driver accused of covering on board security cameras, then sexually assaulting an intellectually disabled woman in the southern ...


You can't  trust TAXI DRIVERS    Angry
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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD  DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH
 
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Sparky
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:00pm:
Sparky wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm:
cods wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
LEAVE OUR NAVY ALONE.....

YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO...

THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.


Click here.

Quote:
Channel Ten has reported allegations that members on board HMAS Ballarat have been anally penetrated with objects including pens and water bottles as part of an initiation ritual.

Defence has confirmed the Ballarat is the focus of an investigation, but will not confirm the nature of the alleged behaviour.

A former Navy member who identified herself as Bridget told Channel Ten that sailors on board the ship have told her that young men are being attacked with objects including water bottles and marker pens.




If these allegations are true, then I don't like what they do.  Must I leave because of brutality in the Australian Navy?

If they are torturing people at sea, I don't like it either.

You cods?
Torturing people at sea hey? I can see what side you are on.


Not too hard to work out.   I'm sure you are on the same side as me on those issues as well.
I'll say this- when our sailors  get on these refugee boats and tell these refugees they won't be going to Australia I doubt it's all smiles and thanks. It would be an aggressive and dangerous situation. The people knocking our Navy and thinking it through.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #9 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 9:59am
 
Sparky wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:07pm:
I'll say this- when our sailors  get on these refugee boats and tell these refugees they won't be going to Australia I doubt it's all smiles and thanks. It would be an aggressive and dangerous situation. The people knocking our Navy and thinking it through.



Yes, it must be terrifying for them.


...


Thank goodness they've done all that training.





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Sparky
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #10 - Feb 21st, 2014 at 4:31am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 9:59am:
Sparky wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:07pm:
I'll say this- when our sailors  get on these refugee boats and tell these refugees they won't be going to Australia I doubt it's all smiles and thanks. It would be an aggressive and dangerous situation. The people knocking our Navy and thinking it through.



Yes, it must be terrifying for them.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2745794-3x2-940x627.jpg


Thank goodness they've done all that training.





Most boats are full of adult males. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #11 - Feb 21st, 2014 at 4:44am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 9:59am:
Sparky wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:07pm:
I'll say this- when our sailors  get on these refugee boats and tell these refugees they won't be going to Australia I doubt it's all smiles and thanks. It would be an aggressive and dangerous situation. The people knocking our Navy and thinking it through.



Yes, it must be terrifying for them.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2745794-3x2-940x627.jpg


Thank goodness they've done all that training.







You're an idiot. Were you born stupid or did you get that way? Seriously, I need to know. You really think a six year-old is going to intimidate an adult member of the Navy? No wonder you halfwads just got your asses handed to you in the September election.
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BigOl64
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #12 - Feb 21st, 2014 at 5:22am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 9:59am:
Yes, it must be terrifying for them.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2745794-3x2-940x627.jpg


Thank goodness they've done all that training.






Like I said this is not a job for the RAAF and the Navy, it is a job for loud mouthed scumbag socialist; I would be more than happy for tax dollars goimng to fund you dickheads to go out and do the job 'properly'.

But as we all know, people like yourself, don't actually do anything except used their acutely honed 20 / 20 hindsight to critisize the efforts of people actually do the sh1t work no one else wants to.


You are one of those loud mouthed idiots, your opinions like your life, are irrelevant and pointless.  Angry


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John S
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #13 - Feb 21st, 2014 at 6:47am
 
I like how all you libturds try to highjack the thread by bring up everything expect what is said in the OP, including taxi drivers. Can anyone point out where taxi drivers are mention in the OP?

So did our navy break international law and if they did who told them to break it.

Before you carry on and say the author doesn't know what she talking about here is her profile from the conversation web site


Quote:
Dr. Natalie Klein is a Professor at Macquarie Law School, Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia where she teaches and researches in different areas of international law, with a focus on law of the sea and international dispute settlement. Dr. Klein is the author of Dispute Settlement and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (Cambridge University Press, 2005) and has recently completed a manuscript for Oxford University Press, entitled Maritime Security and the Law of the Sea. She regularly provides advice, undertakes consultancies and interacts with the media on law of the sea issues. Prior to joining Macquarie, Dr. Klein worked in the international litigation and arbitration practice of Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, served as counsel to the Government of Eritrea and was a consultant in the Office of Legal Affairs at the United Nations. Her masters and doctorate in law were earned at Yale Law School.
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salad in
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Re: Did our Navy do the right thing
Reply #14 - Feb 21st, 2014 at 7:30am
 
John S wrote on Feb 21st, 2014 at 6:47am:
So did our navy break international law and if they did who told them to break it.



Good question.

Quote:
PART VII

HIGH SEAS

Article95

Immunity of warships on the high seas

Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm


What say you Wild One?
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