Australian Politics Forum - Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott

Sparky Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1338 Gender:	Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott Reply #135 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:02pm Many of those big figures are border movements. They really are a different thing .
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aquascoot

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #136 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:07pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:29pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:19pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:05pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 3:59pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 3:53pm:

You must have death, Karnal. It's unavoidable.

I agree. Can't we just let them drown on the way? Have we tried that yet? It could work, you know.

True, and so much easier to explain than if it happens within the borders of our detention centres.

Anyway Karnal, I opt for an even easier solution: Find all those that would seek refugee status, BEFORE they decide to even arrive in Indonesia. And be done with them then, nice and quick. Problem solved.

I agree, Alevine.

Who's idea was that, by the way - SHY or Andrew Bolt?

I think they worked in conjunction with one another. SHY said we had to help end the misery, and Bolt agreed.

They want to euthenise poor Cods?

STOP THE BOATS.

They won't dare touch the speaker of the house!

True, but I think what Aquascoot and Sparky are saying is that there needs to be a policy of deterrence in place.

Killing a few in detention can save thousands of deaths in the long run.

Think of it like Aquascoot's cows in a time of drought. Do you understand a bit better?

My cows are looked after and not used as pawns in some political hand wringing crocodile tear -a- thon.
And i would always spend my money wisely caring for them. If one died, i wouldnt spend several million on getting a team of veterinary lawyers do a report for me. I'd get on with looking after the others in the most efficient way possible. For example, if i had cows in south sudan, somalia and syria, i would send them some hay and say "stay put" I certainly wouldnt boat and fly them all over the world and then put them in quarantine til they died of old age. Wink

What would you do if one of your cows in Sudan/Somalia or Syria was being chased by tigers? Would you expect the cow to stand and fight? Would you try to help it?

I'd advise said cow to seek afety in the next paddock. if it went through 26 paddocks, tore off its eartag to prevent identification and tried to get into the prized sorghum crop , i'd get a bit cross and probably apologise to the sorghum farmer.

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aquascoot

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #137 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:09pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:31pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:26pm:

[quote author=Karnal link=1393124173/123#123 date=1393222769] I certainly wouldnt boat and fly them all over the world and then put them in quarantine til they died of old age. Wink

Where do you send them to, you know... ?

you got me Wink

youre too smart to be a leftard

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #138 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:13pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:29pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:19pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:05pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:00pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 3:59pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 3:53pm:

You must have death, Karnal. It's unavoidable.

I agree. Can't we just let them drown on the way? Have we tried that yet? It could work, you know.

True, and so much easier to explain than if it happens within the borders of our detention centres.

Anyway Karnal, I opt for an even easier solution: Find all those that would seek refugee status, BEFORE they decide to even arrive in Indonesia. And be done with them then, nice and quick. Problem solved.

I agree, Alevine.

Who's idea was that, by the way - SHY or Andrew Bolt?

I think they worked in conjunction with one another. SHY said we had to help end the misery, and Bolt agreed.

They want to euthenise poor Cods?

STOP THE BOATS.

They won't dare touch the speaker of the house!

True, but I think what Aquascoot and Sparky are saying is that there needs to be a policy of deterrence in place.

Killing a few in detention can save thousands of deaths in the long run.

Think of it like Aquascoot's cows in a time of drought. Do you understand a bit better?

My cows are looked after and not used as pawns in some political hand wringing crocodile tear -a- thon.
And i would always spend my money wisely caring for them. If one died, i wouldnt spend several million on getting a team of veterinary lawyers do a report for me. I'd get on with looking after the others in the most efficient way possible. For example, if i had cows in south sudan, somalia and syria, i would send them some hay and say "stay put" I certainly wouldnt boat and fly them all over the world and then put them in quarantine til they died of old age. Wink

What would you do if one of your cows in Sudan/Somalia or Syria was being chased by tigers? Would you expect the cow to stand and fight? Would you try to help it?

I'd advise said cow to seek afety in the next paddock. if it went through 26 paddocks, tore off its eartag to prevent identification and tried to get into the prized sorghum crop , i'd get a bit cross and probably apologise to the sorghum farmer.

What if the cow wasn't concentrating on the nearest paddock, but the nearest path to a safe paddock? No, bad luck?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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aquascoot

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #139 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:38pm

The labour party minister for cow migration(Mr Bob Carr) confirmed that a lot of these cattle that are off the property are merely sorghum seekers. He urged them to stay in their own paddocks. Unbelievably, some criminal farmers are actually accepting bribes from these cows to get in amongst the sweetest crops.
One cow was badly injured by a feral pig whilst feasting on the sorghum and the local CWA went ballistic.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #140 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:39pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

For those who reckon, like a stupid Liberal pollie whose name is Kelly that Australia is punching above its weight on refugees ~ here is the reality check. We suck!

Click here.

Quote:

Refugees recognised: Australia ranks 32nd in terms of the number of people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
Total intake: Australia ranks 22nd in terms of its total refugee intake.

Selective cherry picking of statistics from the leftists here.

We have a UN obligation to take in about 13,000 refugees every year which we do.

We have offshore and onshore categories, those illegal country shopping economic migrants who pay people smugglers queue jump the genuine refugees and displace them from our 13,000 Un refugee obligation.

We took in 5,937 genuine refugees from camps around the world and are rated 2nd in the world per 1000 people for this.

If we didnt have illegal boat people pushing in we would be taking in 13,000 people from refugee camps which would have us ranked #1, the illegal boat people are taking the places of genuine refugees which is why there are only 5,937 refugees listed dropping our rank to 2nd per 1000 people, the 7000+ who came in by boat have displaced genuine refugees to make our total of around 13,000.

The leftists seem to hate those with money yet they always favour those who can afford to pay a people smuggler over those poor refugees who do the right thing, the hypocrisy from the leftists is mind boggling at times.

The religious wars between rival sects in Islam has produced a lot of refugees,(Syria for example) of course the leftists stick up for Islam which has the death penalty for the crime of atheism in 13 Islamic countries.
Islam has a 1400 year history of sunni vs shia battles they started with The Battle of the Camel and will continue while the ignorant leftists put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity.
The leftists hurl slurs like bigot/racist/Islamophobe to any critic who points out the idiocy of the Islamic belief, they have no solution or ideas on how to stop these wars between rival sects of Islam so they suck up to Islam and try to impose Islamic blasphemy laws on critics of Islam hoping the problem will go away.

The murder of Salman Taseer in Pakistan shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose their blasphemy laws, why did our cricket team stop playing in Pakistan was it an Islamic terror threat that stopped them from going there?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38856 Gender:	Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott Reply #141 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:42pm No, Mr Rort, quite clearly, as that link carefully demonstrates, it was the Liberal Kelly who did the cherry picking.
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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18788 Gender:	Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott Reply #142 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:45pm Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:42pm: No, Mr Rort, quite clearly, as that link carefully demonstrates, it was the Liberal Kelly who did the cherry picking. 2012- who was in charge? I suppose now the boats have stopped our intake will grow from 5,900 refugees in camps to 13,000 which will rank us at #1.
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #143 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:12pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:38pm:

The labour party minister for cow migration(Mr Bob Carr) confirmed that a lot of these cattle that are off the property are merely sorghum seekers. He urged them to stay in their own paddocks. Unbelievably, some criminal farmers are actually accepting bribes from these cows to get in amongst the sweetest crops.
One cow was badly injured by a feral pig whilst feasting on the sorghum and the local CWA went ballistic.

Actually carr was the minister for foreign cow affairs.

And what carr failed to remind us all was that he was of course basing his data on cows who weren't even processed yet.

Keep digging.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #144 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

For those who reckon, like a stupid Liberal pollie whose name is Kelly that Australia is punching above its weight on refugees ~ here is the reality check. We suck!

Click here.

Quote:

Refugees recognised: Australia ranks 32nd in terms of the number of people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
Total intake: Australia ranks 22nd in terms of its total refugee intake.

Selective cherry picking of statistics from the leftists here.

We have a UN obligation to take in about 13,000 refugees every year which we do.

We have offshore and onshore categories, those illegal country shopping economic migrants who pay people smugglers queue jump the genuine refugees and displace them from our 13,000 Un refugee obligation.

We took in 5,937 genuine refugees from camps around the world and are rated 2nd in the world per 1000 people for this.

If we didnt have illegal boat people pushing in we would be taking in 13,000 people from refugee camps which would have us ranked #1, the illegal boat people are taking the places of genuine refugees which is why there are only 5,937 refugees listed dropping our rank to 2nd per 1000 people, the 7000+ who came in by boat have displaced genuine refugees to make our total of around 13,000.

The leftists seem to hate those with money yet they always favour those who can afford to pay a people smuggler over those poor refugees who do the right thing, the hypocrisy from the leftists is mind boggling at times.

The religious wars between rival sects in Islam has produced a lot of refugees,(Syria for example) of course the leftists stick up for Islam which has the death penalty for the crime of atheism in 13 Islamic countries.
Islam has a 1400 year history of sunni vs shia battles they started with The Battle of the Camel and will continue while the ignorant leftists put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity.
The leftists hurl slurs like bigot/racist/Islamophobe to any critic who points out the idiocy of the Islamic belief, they have no solution or ideas on how to stop these wars between rival sects of Islam so they suck up to Islam and try to impose Islamic blasphemy laws on critics of Islam hoping the problem will go away.

The murder of Salman Taseer in Pakistan shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose their blasphemy laws, why did our cricket team stop playing in Pakistan was it an Islamic terror threat that stopped them from going there?

Actually the 13000 is a voluntary commitment. Our obligation is to assess asylum seekers and offer protection to those found to be refugees. To that there is NO Number.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #145 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:23pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:24pm:

"Progressive" thinking:

1 dead asylum seeker under the Liberals = Go crazy, bonkers, and nuts.

1,000 dead asylum seekers under Labor = She'll be right, mate!

Something doesn't compute.

Yeas, that is clear in your case.

Those who drowned at sea were not in our detention centres, run by us, and where we have a duty of care to ensure the safety of those in our care/detention.

In fact, Morrison guarantees the safety of those in detention so long as they remain inside the centres.

Selective compassion eh. Doesn't sound very progressive.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #146 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:32pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

For those who reckon, like a stupid Liberal pollie whose name is Kelly that Australia is punching above its weight on refugees ~ here is the reality check. We suck!

Click here.

Quote:

Refugees recognised: Australia ranks 32nd in terms of the number of people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
Total intake: Australia ranks 22nd in terms of its total refugee intake.

Selective cherry picking of statistics from the leftists here.

We have a UN obligation to take in about 13,000 refugees every year which we do.

We have offshore and onshore categories, those illegal country shopping economic migrants who pay people smugglers queue jump the genuine refugees and displace them from our 13,000 Un refugee obligation.

We took in 5,937 genuine refugees from camps around the world and are rated 2nd in the world per 1000 people for this.

If we didnt have illegal boat people pushing in we would be taking in 13,000 people from refugee camps which would have us ranked #1, the illegal boat people are taking the places of genuine refugees which is why there are only 5,937 refugees listed dropping our rank to 2nd per 1000 people, the 7000+ who came in by boat have displaced genuine refugees to make our total of around 13,000.

The leftists seem to hate those with money yet they always favour those who can afford to pay a people smuggler over those poor refugees who do the right thing, the hypocrisy from the leftists is mind boggling at times.

The religious wars between rival sects in Islam has produced a lot of refugees,(Syria for example) of course the leftists stick up for Islam which has the death penalty for the crime of atheism in 13 Islamic countries.
Islam has a 1400 year history of sunni vs shia battles they started with The Battle of the Camel and will continue while the ignorant leftists put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity.
The leftists hurl slurs like bigot/racist/Islamophobe to any critic who points out the idiocy of the Islamic belief, they have no solution or ideas on how to stop these wars between rival sects of Islam so they suck up to Islam and try to impose Islamic blasphemy laws on critics of Islam hoping the problem will go away.

The murder of Salman Taseer in Pakistan shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose their blasphemy laws, why did our cricket team stop playing in Pakistan was it an Islamic terror threat that stopped them from going there?

Actually the 13000 is a voluntary commitment. Our obligation is to assess asylum seekers and offer protection to those found to be refugees. To that there is NO Number.

Are you saying we can withdraw from our Un obligations to take 13,000 refugees because it is voluntary?

Look up the numbers we have been taking over the years, why is it just over 13,000 ?

50,000 refugees in camps lodge applications for our offshore component just about every year, every illegal boat person who pays a people smuggler displaces a genuine refugee who did the right thing.
When it comes to refugees the leftists support the wealthy illegal queue jumpers over the poor refugees who do the right thing.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Aussie

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #147 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:36pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:24pm:

"Progressive" thinking:

1 dead asylum seeker under the Liberals = Go crazy, bonkers, and nuts.

1,000 dead asylum seekers under Labor = She'll be right, mate!

Something doesn't compute.

Yeas, that is clear in your case.

Those who drowned at sea were not in our detention centres, run by us, and where we have a duty of care to ensure the safety of those in our care/detention.

In fact, Morrison guarantees the safety of those in detention so long as they remain inside the centres.

Selective compassion eh. Doesn't sound very progressive.

Not trying to be either compassionate or progressive ~ quite the opposite. I am trying, as best I can, to stick to facts.

(a) Morrison lied about where the deceased was killed. He has confessed.

(b) Morrison failed to deliver on his guarantee that refugees who remain inside the detention would be safe from harm.

Morrison must resign according to the Westminster System of Ministerial responsibility. If he does not, then the same System provides that the PM sacks him.

The alternative is that Australia declares itself no longer responsive to that System. I'm fine with that, but until this Government makes that repudiation, it ought to abide by its fundamental principles.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #148 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:50pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:32pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

For those who reckon, like a stupid Liberal pollie whose name is Kelly that Australia is punching above its weight on refugees ~ here is the reality check. We suck!

Click here.

Quote:

Refugees recognised: Australia ranks 32nd in terms of the number of people who are found to be refugees after arriving in Australia seeking asylum.
Total intake: Australia ranks 22nd in terms of its total refugee intake.

Selective cherry picking of statistics from the leftists here.

We have a UN obligation to take in about 13,000 refugees every year which we do.

We have offshore and onshore categories, those illegal country shopping economic migrants who pay people smugglers queue jump the genuine refugees and displace them from our 13,000 Un refugee obligation.

We took in 5,937 genuine refugees from camps around the world and are rated 2nd in the world per 1000 people for this.

If we didnt have illegal boat people pushing in we would be taking in 13,000 people from refugee camps which would have us ranked #1, the illegal boat people are taking the places of genuine refugees which is why there are only 5,937 refugees listed dropping our rank to 2nd per 1000 people, the 7000+ who came in by boat have displaced genuine refugees to make our total of around 13,000.

The leftists seem to hate those with money yet they always favour those who can afford to pay a people smuggler over those poor refugees who do the right thing, the hypocrisy from the leftists is mind boggling at times.

The religious wars between rival sects in Islam has produced a lot of refugees,(Syria for example) of course the leftists stick up for Islam which has the death penalty for the crime of atheism in 13 Islamic countries.
Islam has a 1400 year history of sunni vs shia battles they started with The Battle of the Camel and will continue while the ignorant leftists put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity.
The leftists hurl slurs like bigot/racist/Islamophobe to any critic who points out the idiocy of the Islamic belief, they have no solution or ideas on how to stop these wars between rival sects of Islam so they suck up to Islam and try to impose Islamic blasphemy laws on critics of Islam hoping the problem will go away.

The murder of Salman Taseer in Pakistan shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose their blasphemy laws, why did our cricket team stop playing in Pakistan was it an Islamic terror threat that stopped them from going there?

Actually the 13000 is a voluntary commitment. Our obligation is to assess asylum seekers and offer protection to those found to be refugees. To that there is NO Number.

Are you saying we can withdraw from our Un obligations to take 13,000 refugees because it is voluntary?

Look up the numbers we have been taking over the years, why is it just over 13,000 ?

50,000 refugees in camps lodge applications for our offshore component just about every year, every illegal boat person who pays a people smuggler displaces a genuine refugee who did the right thing.
When it comes to refugees the leftists support the wealthy illegal queue jumpers over the poor refugees who do the right thing.

13,000 for permanent resettlement is a voluntary programme that is administered by the UN and we agreed to. And as far as I am aware, we can renege in this programme without breaking our obligations to the refugee convention, as long as we actually offer protection, and rights to work etc to those deemed to be refugees.

The problem is of course that we bunch everything into one basket, and as a result renege our obligations to the convention by keeping people in mandatory indefinite detention, AND by turning boats back.

And btw, it is nonsense to suggest a refugee is not worthy of protection just because they may have money. Otherwise, where does it end? Will we queue people up and say "single parent with 4 kids and no money first. Single parent with 3 kids second. Etc etc?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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aquascoot

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Re: Morrison Lied. Sack him Abbott
Reply #149 - Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:50pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:36pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2014 at 4:24pm:

"Progressive" thinking:

1 dead asylum seeker under the Liberals = Go crazy, bonkers, and nuts.

1,000 dead asylum seekers under Labor = She'll be right, mate!

Something doesn't compute.

Yeas, that is clear in your case.

Those who drowned at sea were not in our detention centres, run by us, and where we have a duty of care to ensure the safety of those in our care/detention.

In fact, Morrison guarantees the safety of those in detention so long as they remain inside the centres.

Selective compassion eh. Doesn't sound very progressive.

Not trying to be either compassionate or progressive ~ quite the opposite. I am trying, as best I can, to stick to facts.

(a) Morrison lied about where the deceased was killed. He has confessed.

(b) Morrison failed to deliver on his guarantee that refugees who remain inside the detention would be safe from harm.

Morrison must resign according to the Westminster System of Ministerial responsibility. If he does not, then the same System provides that the PM sacks him.

The alternative is that Australia declares itself no longer responsive to that System. I'm fine with that, but until this Government makes that repudiation, it ought to abide by its fundamental principles.

sounds like a toothless tiger. much like the UN and the indonesian navy Wink

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